How to Trust a moderate Muslim?

[Lurikeen]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, is that the reasoning they went with to try and wiggle out of Old Testament laws? "They don't apply to us because we aren't Jews of the Kingdom of Israel" The fact of the matter is, in early days of Christianity, most OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable to Europeans and were thrown out, and scholars came up with your favorable, convenient interpretation to fill the gap, in the same way that facilitated the Catholic acceptance of evolution.

You say "The fact of the matter is, in early days of Christianity, most OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable to Europeans and were thrown out." What are you talking about? Most of the "OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable" to the rest of the world. You seem to be thinking you're making a good point, but you're not. You're actually making my earlier point for me.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, is that the reasoning they went with to try and wiggle out of Old Testament laws? "They don't apply to us because we aren't Jews of the Kingdom of Israel" The fact of the matter is, in early days of Christianity, most OT lifestyle laws were unpalatable to Europeans and were thrown out, and scholars came up with your favorable, convenient interpretation to fill the gap, in the same way that facilitated the Catholic acceptance of evolution.

I'm not attacking your faith, but I don't think you can tell me with a straight face that the OT accounts of everything about Adam and Eve / Exodus / Genesis haven't been made so watered down and preposterous by modern understanding and poor theology so as to be a complete joke. I think very little of what the OT once was remains in the core identity of Christianity, and every time they bend the scripture to adapt it to a new century it comes a little closer to breaking.

You area really showing your ignorance here Lune =/ and just coming across as angry rather than reasoned. You're completely ignoring the essence of Christianity.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or like this one, "Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)"

oh wait.. wrong book.

This is a double-whammy for Islam, which decries Christians and Jews for not following the word of their shared god. You know Islam is just a second expansion of Judaism right?

Now for Christians it is a bit different. They follow the teachings of their namesake, Christ. Come back with similar language from him (reference books Mathew through John and even the subsequent letters if you are so inclined.

For Christians, Christ's death represented the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and essentially the absolvement of sin, overturning Levitican law and the need for nasty punishments like stoning for things like adultery.

The Jews obviously didn't like his message and had him killed. Mohammad liked the iron fistted god of the Jews better, but was unhappy with their monopoly on his congregation, so he wrote a new chapter, invalidating both the Jews and the frilly Christians claims to salvation.

If you don't think allah is all about ass whooping and domination, read up on the birth of Islam or even just look up the meaning of the word Islam.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now for Christians it is a bit different. They follow the teachings of their namesake, Christ. Come back with similar language from him (reference books Mathew through John and even the subsequent letters if you are so inclined.

For Christians, Christ's death represented the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and essentially the absolvement of sin, overturning Levitican law and the need for nasty punishments like stoning for things like adultery.

This is only a very recent development, with modern evangelicals finding a loophole to further adapt Christianity to an extremely secular culture (compared to how things used to be). Now you don't even need to read or understand the bible and find a uniform conclusion if you don't want to, just love Christ! Is there an icky part of the bible? Who cares! It's all about your love for Christ! And I doubt Catholics would appreciate being characterized as not following Christ's teachings, considering the accounts of Paul, Peter, disciples etc are believed to also be true accounts of what Christ wanted.

I always found it funny the few times I went to bible study with some Evangelical friends in college, that their way of internalizing their religion was sitting around finding ways to interpret and apply parts of the bible to modern life... and reeeaallly stretching it with the interpretations. I had a lot of respect for the good things they would glean from those sessions, but it was just so different from Catholic or Lutheran things I've attended.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is only a very recent development, with modern evangelicals finding a loophole to further adapt Christianity to an extremely secular culture (compared to how things used to be). Now you don't even need to read or understand the bible and find a uniform conclusion if you don't want to, just love Christ! Is there an icky part of the bible? Who cares! It's all about your love for Christ! And I doubt Catholics would appreciate being characterized as not following Christ's teachings, considering the accounts of Paul, Peter, disciples etc are believed to also be true accounts of what Christ wanted.

Which loophole are you referring to? The books that I referenced comprise the new testament, all of which was written by Christ's apostles. Read it, any of it. It does not contain the same violence of the Talmund (Old Testament) or the Qur'an. It just doesn't. Christ was a pacifist.

The text is vitally more important than the people, because any organization/ideology is susceptible to adverse selection and exploitation, but the question of whether or not the text specifically allows for or encourages a behavior determines the degree to which exploitation is likely.

For Christians it took 1500+ years of extrapolation 300-400 of education and development to allow most Christians to focus on the text of their namesake and minimize (though not eliminate as seen in televangelists, catholic priests, etc.) exploitation.

The question at hand is can, Islam reach that point? The text suggests not.

For peace, Christ took a step forward for Jews. Mohamed took 3 backwards.

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or like this one, "Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)"

oh wait.. wrong book.

This law was to apply to the Hebrew land of Israel as indicated by Moses in the context. It does not in any way indicate that Christians should kill non-believers just because they are non-believers. If you knew anything more about the context of this piece other than just Google'n shit to reinforce your arguments you'd realize that. It essentially says if you wish to live in the Hebrew lands, you must adhere to their laws and recognize their authority. Not like any country today does that.... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also fail to see how a Hebrew law from 3,000-4,000 years ago that is not practiced today makes Islam's killing of 'infidels' across the globe in modern times any less barbaric.

[iruinedyourday]

This is an ignorant bigot troll thread and will be gone soon.

[ronasch]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is an ignorant bigot troll thread and will be gone soon.

Said the bigot nevermore

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is an ignorant bigot troll thread and will be gone soon.

You calling people in this thread bigots. Priceless. So I guess it's not the same thing when you do it because you only hate Christians and Jews? Lol

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol i hope you got aids fucking hundreds of bitches while you got that degree, cus you sure didnt get an education.

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its a gammer expression. Besides there are cures now. What i was getting at is i hope ypu had fun. Cus like i said, you didnt learn anything about politix

Your stupidity is astonishing. Please continue, by all means. It's vaguely amusing. Oh wait, I have an idea. Why don't you just skip to the part when you completely lose your shit and post comments like "FUCK YOUR FACE!!"

That was funny shit the other day. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[iruinedyourday]

moderate christian:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]