Paladin: Erudite or High Elf

[Kevynne]

high elf best starting wisdom and also better melee stats than black people

[Salaryman]

erudites make the best paladins but you must deal with racism

[Tuljin]

If between Erudite and High Elf, Erudite is the better choice. Both races have low dex and after the Erudite +5 AGI both end up with 90 STA after point allocation and Eru has 5 more str than High Elf.

Mana pool is of little consequence for Paladin so the Wis on the High Elf isn't that great of a benefit. The high Charisma on High Elf is a great benefit, but 80 charisma base on Erudite really is quite good. If you really get into Paladin you'll find yourself Calming often and its even good idea to carry some charisma gear around.

Plus Erudite paladins are generally badass even if they are a little "gimp." I rolled a Dwarf mainly because I wanted a short tank, they just happen to also have the "best" stats and it kinda sux they're the min/max. They have very low charisma and I've done a ton of successful Calming with CHA gear on despite the low stats. The 25 or 35 extra charisma is significant and it makes a difference.

At the end of the day Paladin is less about stats and DPS and way more about knowing how to pull, , Calm, CC, turn mobs, heal, stun, interrupt casters, and how to be a versatile and effective. If I didn't go Dwarf I would have gone Erudite.

[Raev]

I can just see Xoquil sitting there, thinking "oh no, I might be mistaken for a min-maxer, maybe if I make sure not to get an epic . . ."

heheheh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Tuljin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mana pool is of little consequence for Paladin

that's not true. for a paladin, a larger mana pool is effectively a larger HP pool. it doesn't matter as much for most groups, but in oddball groups or when soloing having a large mana pool is important for a paladin.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Vallanor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go erudite for looks and rarity. Plus Prexus is far cooler than Tunare.

Always bummed me out that Prexus is described as the god of fisherman and coastal villages, rather than of tsunamis and ancient, undersea civilizations.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by pharmakos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's not true. for a paladin, a larger mana pool is effectively a larger HP pool. it doesn't matter as much for most groups, but in oddball groups or when soloing having a large mana pool is important for a paladin.

Extra mana will hardly ever matter.

Extra mana may provide some benefit if shit goes sideways when you're at/near full mana, but that doesn't come up often as you just don't go around breaking camps with groups that are on the ragged edge of fail all that often. Extra mana may be of some benefit if you're at a camp with so much downtime that you sit around doing nothing most of the time, but choosing race for a tank based on the notion of sitting at some lootcamp all day twiddling your thumbs seems like a doubtful path to me.

Half-elf has very poor wis, and I assure you that it was NOT the mana limitation that made soloing my Half-elf paladin suck. Rather it's the "solo"+"paladin" part that sucks. A deeper mana pool would not have averted any deaths nor increased the glacial XP pace.

[williestargell]

Extra mana will hardly ever matter

I completely and totally disagree with this statement. Mana pool is very important to a paladin.

1) Soloing at low-mid level. You are going to be soloing primarily undead, and a good portion of the damage you deal them is from nukes. You are going to be self-healing. Standing toe-to-toe with undead is going to eat mana and if you want to clear a 3-4 mob camp on one mana pool you need it to be large (then sit and med while you wait for the 7 minute respawn. The main reason people say that paladins can't solo is because their paladins have no mana pool.

2) Grouping - even at mid-level group members ask for buffs. If your healer is a shaman or druid especially. Paladins are usually tanking and can't sit down to regen so they need a big pool to cast those occasional buffs and keep casting for agro. They are also going to spot heal.

3) Raiding - In kunark at high level paladins are just as good a healer as a druid (better even with LoH). They should be casting heals on raids. They will probably be asked for symbol by people that clerics don't want to waste mana on. In velious they have their own unique buff that stacks and everyone will want.

The high elf wisdom so far outstrips the other paladin races that they are the min/max choice imo. Moreso even in velious.

[Monty405]

As usual, take whatever you think looks best. After all you will be looking at him or her for hours.

[Tuljin]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can just see Xoquil sitting there, thinking "oh no, I might be mistaken for a min-maxer, maybe if I make sure not to get an epic . . ."

heheheh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rofl That's pretty much it dog really tho Bixie Blade and Sky Belt just OP (Mark of Karn makes it hilarious haha)

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Extra mana will hardly ever matter.

As a Paladin you will rarely sit to full mana. You will probably be pulling most of the time and even if you did get a chance to sit while someone else pulls you have to get up to tank anyways. You also will be casting stuns and roots which chip away at your mana constantly. If you're not getting standing mana regen from C2 you definitely have to be very frugal with your mana and you won't have a ton of it to use for heals.

To sacrifice other important stats mainly HP AC and also Dex for Mana Pool is a poor choice. To have a substantial enough increase in mana pool to have one extra Superior Heal you need 250 mana. For two superior heals you'd need an 500 extra mana. There's no way you can achieve this extra mana without serious sacrifices elsewhere. Even still, this extra mana pool is only of benefit -when your mana bar is full which it will never be- The extra 12 base wisdom that a High Elf has over other races is barely half a Superior Heal at level 60. Also, this requires a Paladin actually getting to level 57 to even get the spell in the first place, something that most people who make the Paladin race selection threads (also most people who roll Paladin in general) will not achieve.

Also consider - this is not Complete Heal we're talking about - we're talking about sacrificing everything else for 500 extra mana (impossible to hit) for 1160 points of healing over 9 seconds and two casts. This is hardly useful on a "raid" and not worth losing a lifetime of higher stats and more Dex for procs over the life of the toon.

Wisdom provides poor gains to mana pool while leveling. You benefit far for from Stat increases. When you hit 45 you will start using your Heal Hat all the time to top off your HP and you will be saving your mana heals for mid-combat heals, which saves a ton of mana and reduces the need for a large pool even more. In your 50s the Heal Hat slows down but its still extremely useful (mana free HP who cares how slow it is)

In low to mid 50s Paladin is a very poor healer with only Greater Healing until level 57. In any "oddball" group (i.e. any group without a Cleric) you will have Daring for an HP/AC buff from the Heal Hat and you'll be using it a ton. Max mana pool is not the limiting factor for your effectiveness with spells, mana regeneration is the limiting factor.

The "raid" guilds have a pathetically low number of Paladins. Nobody is busting down the door to be a "raid" Paladin. I don't think any "raid" Paladin is saying to himself "gee, I really need more Wisdom, I should sacrifice some HP and AC so I can get it" and "I should also sacrifice Dex so my Epic procs a bit less"

Its similar for INT casters even - Max mana pool only matters when you are full mana, which is rarely the case if you're actually playing. Enchanters need a ton of HP for charm breaks and they can Theft of Thought for mana. Mages don't need a deep mana pool and should roll 25 Stamina and get good HP and Save gear. Necro doesn't need a deep mana pool because they lich and they need a deep HP pool as well. Wizard is never full mana and needs HP and Saves as well, and on "raids" you strictly prioritize Save or HP gear depending on the mob which inevitably decreases your mana pool. There are many times on Wiz I've lived with 50-150 HP left, and if it wasn't for HP gearing that simply wouldn't have been the case. On Red its all about Saves and HP, "bluebies" still don't quite get it.

The extra base Wis on the High Elf is hardly a game-changer. High Elf Paladin benefits far more from the extra Charisma than the extra Wisdom.