Shaman Math

[Droxx]

1225hp, 2010 mana, 700 ac, 177 wis. Troll, combo of wis/hp/mana. No items specifically for AC.

[Swishahouse]

1269 HP, 1765Mana, 819AC

[Droxx]

Either way,
OP: In a controlled, safe scenario, there will be little difference in the stats that you choose as a shaman. Different scenarios will require different stats, and there's no right answer to what stats you want to max. Play style will affect this too.

Personally, I want to know that when shit hits the fan worst case style, I have enough HP AND Mana to survive the fight.

[Rahnza]

Originally Posted by Estu

Sir, you're missing the point.

Ok, let's see.

That HP doesn't just come out of nowhere. Once you've spent your extra HP, you need to wait longer to regenerate it.

HP regenerates faster than mana, so I don't see how this is a disadvantage vs. higher wis/mana pool. This is ESPECIALLY the case later in your "solo chain pull" example, assuming you only have your own buffs (lots of HP regen, no clarity).

Point: Reiker. Erm, I mean Rahnza.

Basically in your example, what you're saying is that having higher HP will give you an advantage when you start soloing, and also better survivability. You gave no advantage to high wis shaman, and only saying that they will begin to "equal" out over time. Advantage still to high HP.

Point: Rahnza.

Your example is very limited, and only looks at 2 soloing shaman. Let's look at raiding. You conceded that the high HP shaman has an advantage vs. high wis at the beginning of a solo session (100% hp/mana). Your solo example includes no rest time, however this "rest time" occurs a bunch during raiding, for example before a boss. So, you'd have to agree that a high HP shaman will perform much better than a high wis shaman versus a raid boss.

Point: Rahnza

What you're saying is that high HP shaman performs better than a high wisdom shaman while soloing and especially while raiding.

So... what point was it I was missing again?

Edit: Your only other point is that shaman generally perform equally while soloing for awhile. This is... true and false. In Kunark, this is completely false, as it's very difficult to have enough HP to make Torpor completely efficient even if you ignore wisdom completely. So, when we factor Torpor, you're completely wrong. In classic, high HP just makes your life easier (and as you conceded, makes you much more powerful at max hp/mana). The lower your HP is, the harder canni management is (you never want to reach 100% hp, and having 500 HP less than another shaman means you have to canni more often to stay below that ceiling). The advantage of a high hp shaman in this case (500/1500 hp vs. 500/1000) is breathing room. This can even make you more efficient. Say you regen to 1200/1500 and need to apply another poison, you have 300 HP left before you have to start canning, so you can fire off the poison np. The 1000 hp shaman would be frantically canning to stay below max hp and then juggling that with refreshing dots, etc. And since starting in Kunark there is no such thing as too much HP, why not just start building that way in classic?

I'm not even going to begin to argue against you as per AC vs. HP. First of all, this is very dependent on how often you solo vs. how often you group/raid. Second, people debated AC vs. HP for years on live (no one disagreeing that AC was important, but at what point should you sacrifice HP for AC? I had no trouble soloing the biggest baddies focusing completely on HP so I never really gave it a whole lot of thought). Since AC mechanics are different on P99, this is a discussion that would require tons of parsing and hypotheticals, so I'm ignoring it for a reason.

Edit 2: Shield AC is the exception. As a shaman, you should always be wearing a shield with as much AC as you can get. Throw that PKT away, brah.

[Trademaster]

You get to award points to yourself?

[Rahnza]

Yes, because I am an EverQuest champion.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Rahnza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, because I am an EverQuest champion.

+1

[Swishahouse]

My point is as far as solo/main slower role goes for me its more of a Mana vs HP/AC not AC vs HP hence why I run with only 1765M similar ~1200HP yet around 100ac more than the others have shown.

[Jayko]

It's pretty situational which one of these you're stacking...what you're doing should dictate which gear you're wearing, and I keep a set for each.

I have a set of HP/mana stacked gear that I normally wear in raids (PKT, Djarn's, HBC, etc 1450 hp 2350 mana, mid 700s ac? unbuffed), a set of high ac high hp gear with a shield that I use for full roles in planar where I'm getting hit by a ton of 48-52 mobs (drops me 200+ mana?) and I'm working on a set of high dex gear that drops mana for dex / hp as I recently got a Barbarian Spirist Hammer which is just silly DPS.

I get use out of all three sets. Using a shield and stacking anything but mana in the top end raids is a joke. Stack all the AC you want, the bosses in Sky are going to shred you if you pull aggro before anyone even lands a greater heal. I make sure I have ~200 wis, a couple shy is no problem, and crank straight mana/hp afterwards. Most of the fights don't last long enough for me to run out of mana, but hp doesn't do much for you either as you simply don't NEED to canni and there aren't AEs going off in Sky. AE Mobs you're stacking resists so it throws a whole 'nother wrinkle.

I'd say your best bet if you're trying to build a well rounded set is to stack wis to about 185 or so if you're a barb and then just take whatever piece gives you the most of either hp or mana. If I have the choice between 30 hp and 30 mana I'll generally take the the hp. Due to the relative size of the pools, 30hp is a larger upgrade than 30 mana. I wear a Djarn's and an HBC full time because it's just difficult to find that much HP in other slots.

-Jayko
50 Barb Shaman <Dark Ascension>

[thefloydian]

So what should I put my points into at creation? Stamina?