Class defining epic

[Loke]

to answer why bard epic, because a) singing mod doesnt exist outside of epic and b) allows you to mod all songs of different instrument types, while meleeing, without having to switch instruments. That 2nd one opens up a lot of possibilities considering the bard class is largely about doing as many things as possible in the limited time alloted to you with song duration. Certain things that you wouldnt have time to do due to switching or different song types immediately become feasible and effective.

[iruinedyourday]

Shaman drastically has the most class/game changing effect on it.

A bard doesnt swap insterments with its epic, and gets to hit things while it sings, ok.. but you're still providing the same group features as you are with instruments, just wtih more ease.

a cleric can rez more, sure.. but again its just taking what they usualy do, and makes it easier.

An epic shaman changes from a group centric buff/heal/utility party member.. to a solo, dps, killing machine.

I mean the # of things you can kill that you couldn't kill before, goes from 0 to 8+ at a time.. that's a drastic change. More drastic of a change of game-play than I can think any other epic provides.

[-Catherin-]

Shaman epic doesn't change how the class is played, but simply makes them more mana efficient because they have an extra way to do damage. looking at it that way, Torpor is more class defining than the epic is.

Bard epic literally changes how the class is played on a fundamental level, which was what the OP was asking. Other epics are more about making the classes a bit more powerful at what they already are able to do.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman epic doesn't change how the class is played, but simply makes them more mana efficient because they have an extra way to do damage. looking at it that way, Torpor is more class defining than the epic is.

Bard epic literally changes how the class is played on a fundamental level, which was what the OP was asking. Other epics are more about making the classes a bit more powerful at what they already are able to do.

100% disagree. A shaman without an epic is draaaaaaaaaaaaaastically different than one with.

I mean seriously, you may be thinking of a raid shaman.. sure then you are the same with or without an epic.

But for the other 99% of the game, your playstyle will change 100%.

You will not solo sebilis for xp and loot without one, you wont solo the efreeti AND all the imps for xp.

you wont solo every LDC in solb without one, you wont kill everything on the city of mist 2nd floor.

Sure you can go to these places and use the same strategies that the epic uses to kill A MOB.. but you wont be doing it as an efficient strategy that would make it a viable rout for XP.

So this means youre doing something, and playing the class 100% different with than you would be doing without an epic.

To me this is the most drastic change in playstle of any class once an epic is obtained.. there is nothing that compares to this frequent of different gameplay in classic EQ.

A topor shaman is still going to have a bad time killing every imp in solB for xp without an epic, not that you would with topor cus you're obviously already 60 and dont need that xp anymore, but if you wanted to go head to head, the epic shaman with topor would decimate the non epic sham.

shaman hands down is the most class defining epic.

A shaman with an epic can handle any and all xp camps that a group of 6 holds down on eq, on its own.. and without an epic it wouldnt even come close to doing that.

[dafier]

What fundamentals does the Bard epic bring in Velious? Seriously, what's different from Kunark Epic Bard to Velious Epic Bard?

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by dafier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What fundamentals does the Bard epic bring in Velious? Seriously, what's different from Kunark Epic Bard to Velious Epic Bard?

Question had nothing to do with velious so I don't see your point. and the same question could be asked of any class when you put it that way. But the answer, as with any other class... is none. Velious going live doesn't change how an epic works.

Although bard epic does get changed so it will work in offhand too which is going to be really nice.

[Loke]

Also, the shaman epic is really only useful in solo / leveling scenarios. On raids the effect is essentially useless and in a group situation you'd need to have stunningly bad dps for its long duration and low dps start to have any real impact.

Definitely a good epic, but far more situational than the bards.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, the shaman epic is really only useful in solo / leveling scenarios. On raids the effect is essentially useless and in a group situation you'd need to have stunningly bad dps for its long duration and low dps start to have any real impact.

Definitely a good epic, but far more situational than the bards.

The quesation isnt what epic changes RAIDING more than any other epic, it asks what is the most clsas defining epic.

99% of the game is not raiding, 100% of the gameplay is changed with an epic on a shaman. There for the shaman epic is the most drastic change to gameplay you will find in EQ hands down.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The quesation isnt what epic changes RAIDING more than any other epic, it asks what is the most clsas defining epic.

99% of the game is not raiding, 100% of the gameplay is changed with an epic on a shaman. There for the shaman epic is the most drastic change to gameplay you will find in EQ hands down.

Class defining typically considers the full spectrum of what a class is capable of. So its natural that raiding and solo and grouping is all part of it.

[-Catherin-]

Also in raiding scenarios your epic bards are always going to get the MT and melee DPS groups while the non-epic bards will be with the casters, since not having an epic doesn't change what they can bring to a caster group but an epic bard significantly impacts the melee and MT groups

Can't really think of another class where their role in a raid group literally hinges on having an epic or not.