BREAKING: Obongo's TREASONOUS Moslem Afrocentric appeasement

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Big_Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nations that are gang-fucked by the international community for decades, have their legitimate governments toppled, and given a common enemy to unify and struggle against tend to turn into authoritarian states. That's common sense.

Tightening the shackles is not a long-term solution.

maybe u should stop doing drugs and ask yourself why international community has been so evil with them pherhaps.

[Patriam1066]

We're a long way out from both 1953 and 1979. At this point blaming america doesn't make much sense.

Why build a nuke? Is it to protect Iran's interests, or to protect the interests of Iran's government? That's a major distinction.

For instance, in the 1980's, iran enacted a family planning policy which distributed contraception, legalized vasectomies, and was generally forward thinking for the entire region. Now, they are reversing easy access to condoms and birth control in the absence of a growing population. The point is, it was never about liberating women, it was about a policy that benefitted the government. Now that te population is starting to age (and emigrate), they are revoking women's rights. They purely serve their own interests... The persian people are just slaves.

Just FYI, the coup in 1953 was supported by the Shia clergy, because mossadeh was backed by the Tudeh party. America bears a ton of responsibility and blame for where iran is today, but the current government has not allowed any type of genuine political reform and bases it's every action on its own interests. They will show their true colors in time, when a genuine resistance forms. When they fire on protestors like Assad did (or they themselves did in 2009), I hope you understand what they are.

[Big_Japan]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point is, it was never about liberating women, it was about a policy that benefitted the government.

this differs from every other place in the world how?

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Big_Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this differs from every other place in the world how?

yes in the sense than that goverment, send you straigh to jail because u dont full endorse his way, in other countrys u can atleats enough free speech to say you think gov is wrong,

u do it there and hope u have a nice 20 years in jail for speaking ur mind.

[Big_Japan]

"liberating" women was mobilizing half of our population for total war. You have to be pretty drunk on amurika kool-aid to be oblivious to that.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Big_Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this differs from every other place in the world how?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death...da_Agha-Soltan

Yeah, every government fires on female protestors. Didnt take long for the moral equivalency argument to come out. Also, did I miss where every regime on earth is seeking a nuclear weapon? Isn't that what this thread is about? Why does iran want a nuke but nigeria doesn't? Why doesn't kenya? Why hasn't turkwy sought one up to the point. Iran's government is evil. If you want to think america and Israel are evil as well, the fine, be my guest, but stop pretending the Ayatollah and his cohorts aren't scumbags.

25% brain drain. People don't want to live in Iran. Not sure what else I can say. It isn't just sanctions and economics, people have NO rights, dignities, or privileges there.

[Big_Japan]

You seem to think I have love for Iran. I don't. It's a fucked-up mess that meddling and entangling alliances created, and it can only be fixed by discontinuing those policies.

[Connecticut]

Israel's conscription policy has fostered a pervasive groupthink issue within the population.

Their continued apartheid of the Gaza strip strains our otherwise friendly relationship.

[Patriam1066]

You seem to think that Khomeini wasn't an idealogue who hated Israel from the get go. This was going to happen regardless. Totalitarian governments seeking hegemony can't be reasoned with. Russia was opened to the international economy, so was China. Have we seen the inevitable opening of the political orders that everyone said would happen? Or do we see states with much better technology, access to western technology and markets, who are now better positioned to seek their own aims.

I'm not going to tell you that I think America is always right in foreign policy. America fucked Iran in 1953, everyone who grew up in Esfahan (and in the rest of the country) knows that. But Iran doesn't act this way because of America. They are ideological. Just like Russia, and just like China. You have a group of people in charge who want only more power for themselves, and they will hold their nations down regardless of what it means for their people.

Russia in Georgia and Ukraine, China in the South China Sea, and Iran in Syria, Yemen, etc.
This is about hegemony for their political elites, not their people. If these governments actually cared about their people, they would open the political order, or at the very list, provide basic human rights like a Singapore (a fairly authoritarian state but in such a way that people are treated mostly with dignity).

We could argue forever, but I've actually lived there. It isn't the same way you think it is. America has a plutocratic government. Iran is something different. They are conditioned to fight forever, regardless of what it costs their people. Do put it as simply as I can, they are run by people that are very similar to the people that run Russia. They will burn their countries to the ground if they can stand atop the ashes.

I just want what's best for my people, and nothing but political reform is a move in the right direction.

[Big_Japan]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seem to think that Khomeini wasn't an idealogue who hated Israel from the get go. This was going to happen regardless. Totalitarian governments seeking hegemony can't be reasoned with. Russia was opened to the international economy, so was China. Have we seen the inevitable opening of the political orders that everyone said would happen? Or do we see states with much better technology, access to western technology and markets, who are now better positioned to seek their own aims.

I'm not going to tell you that I think America is always right in foreign policy. America fucked Iran in 1953, everyone who grew up in Esfahan (and in the rest of the country) knows that. But Iran doesn't act this way because of America. They are ideological. Just like Russia, and just like China. You have a group of people in charge who want only more power for themselves, and they will hold their nations down regardless of what it means for their people.

Russia in Georgia and Ukraine, China in the South China Sea, and Iran in Syria, Yemen, etc.
This is about hegemony for their political elites, not their people. If these governments actually cared about their people, they would open the political order, or at the very list, provide basic human rights like a Singapore (a fairly authoritarian state but in such a way that people are treated mostly with dignity).

We could argue forever, but I've actually lived there. It isn't the same way you think it is. America has a plutocratic government. Iran is something different. They are conditioned to fight forever, regardless of what it costs their people. Do put it as simply as I can, they are run by people that are very similar to the people that run Russia. They will burn their countries to the ground if they can stand atop the ashes.

I just want what's best for my people, and nothing but political reform is a move in the right direction.

I don't suppose dominion over other nations and races, and I don't justify the meddling in foreign nations' affairs that forces them on the path of militarism with heartstring-tugging propaganda. I don't give a fuck if Iran murders Iranian protestors, or if Iranian people are unhappy. That does not give my nation license to meddle in Iran's affairs. I'm not a totalitarian, sorry.

This is quite simply the "world police" argument. The US literally kidnaps 17 year olds and pumps ground chickpeas into their ass without medical necessity to torture them. You want to talk about evil governments?

The only way forward is to scale back our meddling in foreign affairs. Without the intense economic and military interference that has turned Iran into a pressure-cooker, we might actually have a chance at seeing peace and an open Iran governed more like Turkey, or like Iran was before we literally toppled the regime. Also, what kind of twisted doublethink does it take to blame Iran for not being open to the West when it is sanctioned to shit by the West?

Nuclear weapons are ugly, but nuclear deterrence brings some semblance of stability. That's what Israel can't have if it is to expand its hegemony over the region.