Isn't there a better way to distribute raid loot? If not which is most fair?

[cbozeman]

DKP doesn't reward skill, and never has, and never will. That's it biggest short-coming.

There's a reason all the best WOW guilds (and FF14 guilds for that matter) use loot council; because the best loot needs to be in the hands of the best players if you expect to advance.

That said... you don't have this problem in Project 1999, since you'll be stuck in an expansion for years at a time - maybe forever! So all the baddies can rely on DKP and know they'll eventually get whatever they want.

Subjective loot councils are garbage by the way. SK Gaming did a YouTube interview back in the World of Warcraft Tier 10 raiding days (Icecrown Citadel), where one of their officers was saying, "Perhaps one person stood in something and got hit with it 2, or maybe 3 times in a fight... that would probably disqualify them from getting the loot."

Everything else was expected:

* Expected to be at each raid.
* Expected to be on time.
* Expected to have all consumables ready to go.
* Expected to be pushing max DPS / healing efficiency / tanking.

If you want a truly fair system, you need an objective loot council that scours through the combat log after every fight / during every fight and qualifies / disqualifies people based on their performance. Attendance, etc. should all be a given.

[Teneran]

Originally Posted by cbozeman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DKP doesn't reward skill, and never has, and never will. That's it biggest short-coming.

There's a reason all the best WOW guilds (and FF14 guilds for that matter) use loot council; because the best loot needs to be in the hands of the best players if you expect to advance.

That said... you don't have this problem in Project 1999, since you'll be stuck in an expansion for years at a time - maybe forever! So all the baddies can rely on DKP and know they'll eventually get whatever they want.

Subjective loot councils are garbage by the way. SK Gaming did a YouTube interview back in the World of Warcraft Tier 10 raiding days (Icecrown Citadel), where one of their officers was saying, "Perhaps one person stood in something and got hit with it 2, or maybe 3 times in a fight... that would probably disqualify them from getting the loot."

Everything else was expected:

* Expected to be at each raid.
* Expected to be on time.
* Expected to have all consumables ready to go.
* Expected to be pushing max DPS / healing efficiency / tanking.

If you want a truly fair system, you need an objective loot council that scours through the combat log after every fight / during every fight and qualifies / disqualifies people based on their performance. Attendance, etc. should all be a given.

Yea, after all <Afterlife> never really advanced in EQ after they implemented DKP ...

[cbozeman]

Originally Posted by Teneran [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea, after all <Afterlife> never really advanced in EQ after they implemented DKP ...

I never said you can't have a great guild that will go places with DKP, I just said, look at all the very best guilds on nearly any MMO... its almost always loot council, and a very rigorous objective one at that.

By the way, did you know anyone from <Afterlife>? I'm trying to track down two people... I don't know for sure what their character names were there, but they went by Morden & Frostwave on Turalyon of the World of Warcraft server. They were two of my best officers in the guilds I led there.

[Teneran]

Originally Posted by cbozeman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said you can't have a great guild that will go places with DKP, I just said, look at all the very best guilds on nearly any MMO... its almost always loot council, and a very rigorous objective one at that.

By the way, did you know anyone from <Afterlife>? I'm trying to track down two people... I don't know for sure what their character names were there, but they went by Morden & Frostwave on Turalyon of the World of Warcraft server. They were two of my best officers in the guilds I led there.

Well, you did say a guild can't progress with DKP (read your post). My point is, you can. My raiding guild on Live did DKP and we progressed quite well and there are a lot of other examples I'm sure. You prefer Loot Council, that's great, both can work.

Yes I do actually know someone who was in <Afterlife>. He didn't play with them in WoW though.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Teneran [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea, after all <Afterlife> never really advanced in EQ after they implemented DKP ...

How many expansions did AL finish first serverwide?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How many expansions did AL finish first serverwide?

Luclin and PoP?

They only even finished PoP because they neutered Quarm though. Rabble rabble.

[Valrok]

It sounds like some greedy inner circles have jaded some folks from ever trusting them in other guilds.

[Erydan Ouragan]

I'm not really concerned about loot itself, i'm more concerned about being taken for a bitch.

The way i see it, leaders and officers of raiding guilds are like the CEOs and boards of companies. They go in with this official tone "our distribution system promotes fair use and fairness of the fair while simultaneously offering the best return to ratio on the investment of the investing parties, according to the regulation of actives and blah blah blah".

The reality is that they don't give a fuck. They're in it for themselves and their little clique. They sit in the officer channels, rolling around in platinum, caressing their epics and crowns of rile while laughing at their members behind their backs.

Their end goal is loot and to obtain it, they need more than just their little group of friends, so that's where the members come in. How many of you have ever grouped with the leaders and/or officers? Raiding guilds are often portrayed as teams, when in reality, it's run like a company. You are the workers, they are the bosses. That's why they never hang out with you, group with you, or even talk to you. You're that worker they see passing by when you arrive to clock in for your shift while they're going out for a round of golf.

They hold nothing but contempt and disgust for you at worst, indifference at best. If they could reach their loot goals without you, be absolutely certain that they would never even acknowledge your existence, for their world is limited to themselves and their close friends.

The rest of you are tools, a means to an end.

[Eldon]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not really concerned about loot itself, i'm more concerned about being taken for a bitch.

The way i see it, leaders and officers of raiding guilds are like the CEOs and boards of companies. They go in with this official tone "our distribution system promotes fair use and fairness of the fair while simultaneously offering the best return to ratio on the investment of the investing parties, according to the regulation of actives and blah blah blah".

The reality is that they don't give a fuck. They're in it for themselves and their little clique. They sit in the officer channels, rolling around in platinum, caressing their epics and crowns of rile while laughing at their members behind their backs.

Their end goal is loot and to obtain it, they need more than just their little group of friends, so that's where the members come in. How many of you have ever grouped with the leaders and/or officers? Raiding guilds are often portrayed as teams, when in reality, it's run like a company. You are the workers, they are the bosses. That's why they never hang out with you, group with you, or even talk to you. You're that worker they see passing by when you arrive to clock in for your shift while they're going out for a round of golf.

They hold nothing but contempt and disgust for you at worst, indifference at best. If they could reach their loot goals without you, be absolutely certain that they would never even acknowledge your existence, for their world is limited to themselves and their close friends.

The rest of you are tools, a means to an end.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ishbu]

Not to nag, but some of the sentiment in the OP is why all new games are instanced with 100% spawns rates and guarenteed drops for all, because for some reason the idea that investing more time means you get more back isnt fair to a lot of people.

DKP is clearly the best way. If some people cant play as much as others due to other commitments, why on earth should they get equal reward? That doesnt make any sense. If anything, you should be happy that you will have gear goals extending the fun for your character longer than the people who got everything quickly. It is a game you should want to play after all.