Did I make a mistake by choosing to play wizard?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Pyrion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmm... let's see.
1) Good solo ability. That maybe true at higher levels, earlier soloing sucks.
2) Ports. Right, you have a point.
3) Good in groups. What game are you playing? Wizard is probably the least wanted class in any group.
4) Great on raids. Well... yes, but far from the best.

Point 3 is the biggest problem of the class, not one of its assets.

Agreed on number 3. Leveling a wizard is pure torture. Wizards are the class you power level after you already have other 60s. I can bang out a wiz 1 to 60 in a week or so with casual chardoking 45 plus.

[Uuruk]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed on number 3. Leveling a wizard is pure torture. Wizards are the class you power level after you already have other 60s. I can bang out a wiz 1 to 60 in a week or so with casual chardoking 45 plus.

Not classic.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Pyrion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmm... let's see.
1) Good solo ability. That maybe true at higher levels, earlier soloing sucks.
2) Ports. Right, you have a point.
3) Good in groups. What game are you playing? Wizard is probably the least wanted class in any group.
4) Great on raids. Well... yes, but far from the best.

Point 3 is the biggest problem of the class, not one of its assets.

I guess by "good" I mean middle of the road in groups. It's has to be easier getting a group on a wiz than on a necro/dru/pal/ranger. I imagine they would be very strong in ench + bard groups. Plus there's chardok aoe to consider...

I'd argue that they are actually the best dps class on raids in Kunark. Rogues have certain advantages, but the hardest mobs in the game right now are Gorenaire and Hoshkar, both of which have slow aoes. A proper raid isn't likely to wipe on most other mobs. The debuffs can be cured rather easily, but I'd still prefer wizards over any other dps class. I think wizards beat rogues dps-wise on 32k mobs anyway.

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enchanters and Shamans have 3 of the 4.
Unless by "great on raids" means they stack well with others of their class.

Yea, I do mean that. I mean, you can prebuff with both of those classes and just play another toon for the actual fight. You can never have too many wizards.

[Pyrion]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess by "good" I mean middle of the road in groups. It's has to be easier getting a group on a wiz than on a necro/dru/pal/ranger. I imagine they would be very strong in ench + bard groups. Plus there's chardok aoe to consider...

If a wizard in a group is preferable to necro or ranger is debatable. Paladin is a tank and therefore one of the core classes of any group. Why anybody would prefer a wizard to a druid in a group is beyond me. Wizard has maybe 10% more DD DPS while druid makes up for it giving the tank a damage shield. Druid has ports as well, can heal, sow, buff, snare (with much less mana than a wiz)... Î agree that druid is not one of the most wanted in a group, but he outshines a wizard by a mile.

[webrunner5]

I have a mid level Wizard but they are a one trick Pony. And I thought a Mage was sort of boring other than having to gate a hell of a lot. But the porting is nice to be able to do. And if you HAVE to be afk a lot like with kids I can think of worse classes to play. And if you need to go to Sky well guess what. "Where is a Wizard when you need it". [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tuljin]

Wizard can out DPS a raid on a 32k Hp boss really with 30+ toons on a raid. This is still tricky because its easier to agro the mob the more people on the raid. Also, you wont have a ton of time to drop enough Concussions to knock agro down enough for a hard burn, though peppering them in is nice. With a lot of toons on a mob, if you cast Lure of Ice too soon, you will definitely get agro, so you have to wait until around 70% to start. Its definitely a balancing act.

On small raids (12-18) with the DPS spread over fewer toons its actually easier to dump your whole mana bar. The longer a Rogue is on a mob you really see how much damage they deal. You still have to wait a bit to cast, but you can burn without worrying about agro.

As far as Wiz vs Druid/Nec/Mage in a group is concerned, lets not kid ourselves. Nobody on this server starts a group without a Cleric (which is annoying and ridiculous, btw) at which point the Druid is shooed away. If a Druid is in a group, he is rarely casting nukes, and most Druids I've seen have very little dungeon time and are terrible at snaring. Nec is a great group member, but nobody has group time on them either. Mage is also an excellent group mate (coth pulls and good pet DPS ftw) but again, considered a pariah.

My point is very few people have any clue how effective each one of these classes are in a dungeon. The majority of the P99 hivemind has never even grouped with one of these classes for extended periods, let alone someone truly "good" at them. Name the last time you grouped with a Mage. Now name the last time you grouped with a "good" mage. Its all hot air.

I have never even seen a Wizard besides myself cast a stun - period. Offensively, defensively, to save a group member who got agro, to stop a runner, etc, nothing. Wizards I've seen don't even understand snare mechanics. By and large, stun, fetter, and snare are far more useful in dangerous places than the proven "bad" dps of a wizard. I have not seen a single wizard who times Draught of Jiva (Thunder Strike line) spell casts to knock out spells. Instead, they will drop Rend instead of Draught of Fire (for some reason) and root runners (while running) instead of snaring them ahead of time. There's actually a LOT a Wizard can do in a group, just nobody has ever seen it.

Same with the rest of these bastard classes - generally nobody has a clue about them. Nobody has played with them when played by a skilled player, yet run their mouths. All of these classes are good in groups when played well. I would take a great Druid for a healer over a Cleric who sits on his ass and does nothing besides cast CH (and even does a shitty job at that) any day of the week.

[sox7d]

Originally Posted by Pyrion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If a wizard in a group is preferable to necro or ranger is debatable. Paladin is a tank and therefore one of the core classes of any group. Why anybody would prefer a wizard to a druid in a group is beyond me. Wizard has maybe 10% more DD DPS while druid makes up for it giving the tank a damage shield. Druid has ports as well, can heal, sow, buff, snare (with much less mana than a wiz)... Î agree that druid is not one of the most wanted in a group, but he outshines a wizard by a mile.

Seriously. It comes down to math.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to the wizard, lets say they're using their most mana efficient DD, Sunstrike.

1615 dmg, 450 mana

This translates to ~3.6 damage per mana.

I believe my 60 wizard gained 20 mana per 6 second tick while medding which translates to 3.33 mana per second.

3.33 * 3.6 = 12 damage per second sustained.

With clarity II, that comes out to 18.6 damage per second sustained.

With harvest giving 326 mana every 10.16 minutes (Casting time), that adds
10.16 * 60 / 326 which is an extra 1.867 mana per second or 6.731 damage per second. This brings us to 23.33 damage per second sustained

Throwing epic into the picture that's an extra 3 mana per tick or .5 mana per second


Let's say there's 24 seconds between each pull. That leaves the battle with very roughly (24 / 6) * (20 + 11 + 1.867 + 3) * 3.6 = 516.48 damage per pull at level 60 with C2 and epic.



TL;DR If your group sucks and can barely get any pulls, an epic'd wizard with C2 will almost be as good as a typical melee assuming no resists. And no, it is NOT worth the "But you can nuke down adds in an emergency!" logic.

[sox7d]

On the other hand, I've probably done more damage in a few hours of chardok than a rogue has done in his entire life, so at least there's that.

[getsome]

I can comment on raiding on a wizard. I do not play him for exp or farming.

On P99, wizard agro can easily be mitigated by your tank dumping a mallet and a few other clickies into a mob. I will not advocate that this is classic wizard play but it works here.

A great wizard with a solid tank will top the DPS and Damage done charts on all fights in Kunark. And will normally never need a healer or bard resist songs if they gear out appropiately and buff themselves properly before each encounter.

I normally only play my wizard outside of VP. On Gore I have done up to 10k damage in a normally balanced 30 man raid. Normal damage in our raids where our raid dps is quite high is closer to 3-7k on most fights.

Velious will move the wizards to a mid tier damage dealer until bane spells are released. Wizards can normally sustain their damage with very little outside assistance in terms of heals or buffs etc. so raiding guilds welcome wizards with open arms.

As for positioning on your wizard, if you find that this an issue, try and use spells with lower cast times (inny and ct where the mobs bounce) . Or position yourself behind your tank if you doing mobs such as Gorenaire where the push can be predicted. Then after each cast, adjust your position in accordance with the push rate, prior to casting your next nuke.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by getsome [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can comment on raiding on a wizard. I do not play him for exp or farming.

On P99, wizard agro can easily be mitigated by your tank dumping a mallet and a few other clickies into a mob. I will not advocate that this is classic wizard play but it works here.

A great wizard with a solid tank will top the DPS and Damage done charts on all fights in Kunark. And will normally never need a healer or bard resist songs if they gear out appropiately and buff themselves properly before each encounter.

I normally only play my wizard outside of VP. On Gore I have done up to 10k damage in a normally balanced 30 man raid. Normal damage in our raids where our raid dps is quite high is closer to 3-7k on most fights.

Velious will move the wizards to a mid tier damage dealer until bane spells are released. Wizards can normally sustain their damage with very little outside assistance in terms of heals or buffs etc. so raiding guilds welcome wizards with open arms.

As for positioning on your wizard, if you find that is an issue use spells with lower cast times (inny and ct where the mobs bounce) . Or position yourself behind your tank if you doing mobs such as Gorenaire where the push can be predicted. Then after each cast, adjust your position in accordance with the push rate, prior to casting your next nuke.

Only had belly casting issues with ct when people aren't in position or when that class r guild was killing a mob and our tank got ping pong summoned. Twas the best.