How much native american influence you think america had as a democracy and culture?

[Jimes]

Interesting. Cortés' men wrote of how when they first saw Tenochtitlan it was far more grand than anything they had ever seen in Spain. To call them primitive is basically just a baseless insult, because they had a highly developed culture. But of course, it wasn't Western, therefore that means it they are savages in the minds of the ethnocentric.

[Sorn]

Originally Posted by Thrynn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No roads, primitive economics, inadequate primitive farming, no wheels, no written language, scalpings, ritual human sacrifice, rivers of blood flowing down the steps of aztec pyramids as still living hearts are cut out of the victim's chests, ball games where one team is ritually slaughtered at the end of the match.

These are but cross section of the customs of the noble native.

???

Erm, well, aside from the fact that you seem to be lumping several different peoples together...

Figure 1: The Mayans built large paved roads between ancient cities that still exist today and can be traveled on. Other peoples would have had well-traveled roads as well.

Figure 2: This is the Mayan writing system. The Mexica had a similar system, and the Olmec probably had one as well, though no evidence of such has turned up yet.

Agriculture was well-developed within Aztec society. It was probably more efficient and less work than US agriculture today, as a matter of fact. At least they wouldn't be caught having to turn all the excess corn into liquor in a desperate attempt to not go bankrupt as the surplus in the market causes prices to drop.

Important war captives were primarily used as sacrifices. Babies were not used. For example, 'los danzantes' (the dancers) are a large group of carvings representing war captives in various states of sacrifice, and each have a specific name written in hieroglyphics. Kings and nobility would have been much more likely to be sacrificed than any other person. They would have also been forced to participate (and lose) in the ritual ball games where the losers were killed.

The Europeans, of course, eventually swooped in, spread their plagues, took the gold they saw, burned nearly all the manuscripts in an attempt to exorcise the devil from Mesoamerica, converted or enslaved or killed the natives, and left behind the broken remnants of a people that most today consider vicious, baby-slaughtering, bloody-minded, uncivilized inferior savages with no proper form of society to be seen, who only know how to do war whoops and say things like, "Me big chief!" while beating their chests when they're not dismembering innocent children to appease their barbarian gods.

[Bodeanicus]

Originally Posted by Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

???

Erm, well, aside from the fact that you seem to be lumping several different peoples together...

Figure 1: The Mayans built large paved roads between ancient cities that still exist today and can be traveled on. Other peoples would have had well-traveled roads as well.

Figure 2: This is the Mayan writing system. The Mexica had a similar system, and the Olmec probably had one as well, though no evidence of such has turned up yet.

Agriculture was well-developed within Aztec society. It was probably more efficient and less work than US agriculture today, as a matter of fact. At least they wouldn't be caught having to turn all the excess corn into liquor in a desperate attempt to not go bankrupt as the surplus in the market causes prices to drop.

Important war captives were primarily used as sacrifices. Babies were not used. For example, 'los danzantes' (the dancers) are a large group of carvings representing war captives in various states of sacrifice, and each have a specific name written in hieroglyphics. Kings and nobility would have been much more likely to be sacrificed than any other person. They would have also been forced to participate (and lose) in the ritual ball games where the losers were killed.

The Europeans, of course, eventually swooped in, spread their plagues, took the gold they saw, burned nearly all the manuscripts in an attempt to exorcise the devil from Mesoamerica, converted or enslaved or killed the natives, and left behind the broken remnants of a people that most today consider vicious, baby-slaughtering, bloody-minded, uncivilized inferior savages with no proper form of society to be seen, who only know how to do war whoops and say things like, "Me big chief!" while beating their chests when they're not dismembering innocent children to appease their barbarian gods.

He's a fucking idiot. You can't fix stupid.

[Straif]

too lazy to read everything...

The idea of a confederation of provinces where one federal government controls the states was stolen from the Iroquois league by the dastardly Europeans whom came to the US.

[eqdruid76]

Originally Posted by Noleafclover [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Taxi: How much native american influence you think america had as a democracy and culture?

Threeve.

Let's see what you wagered....

$Texas.....

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Thrynn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No roads, primitive economics, inadequate primitive farming, no wheels, no written language, scalpings, ritual human sacrifice, rivers of blood flowing down the steps of aztec pyramids as still living hearts are cut out of the victim's chests, ball games where one team is ritually slaughtered at the end of the match.

These are but cross section of the customs of the noble native.

See this is exactly the shit rap ive been talking about, ignorant racist people who perpetuate myths.

Mayas had a written language:

Aztecs had a written language:

http://alina_stefanescu.typepad.com/...6227948970b-pi

These languages have roots in the Olmec language (that was also written)

No farming? This is what tenochtitlan looked like when spaniards first came there, they had never seen any city like it, even along European references:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/340...544b67aef5.jpg

The mathematics of the mayans was more advanced in the 1300s than it was in europe.

One other thing, is that Europeans had this wealth of culture they could draw on to prop up their own on, arab medecine, arab optics, chinese technology, greek material translated by arab scholars. Spain was basically a medieval shithole before the arabs came and raised the level of culture there.

Im not denying that the aztec for example had ritual sacrifices, but what else
could you call burning witches at the stake but ritual sacrifice? A hundred thousand women in 2 centuries, do we reject Europe as primitive as a whole because part of their populace engaged in barbaric behavior? The hold that the religious caste had on aztec population was probably very similar to the hold european religious caste had on european population around the same time. This is just plain racism, double standards.

[Thrynn]

Originally Posted by Bodeanicus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's a fucking idiot. You can't fix stupid.

Ad Hominem attacks: the first resort of those who have their ideas challenged and who have no real point. Thanks for exposing your nerdrage.

So PERHAPS I was mistake about ONE of the things I said. What about all the others? Are you going to the "whats a little human sacrifice between friends argument" ?

And by all means, all you members of the Multicultural Orthodox Church, go ahead and throw out the "germ warfare" accusation referring to supposed smallpox blankets. I'd love for you to expose more of your embicility.

You do know that germs weren't discovered as the cause of disease until the late 1800s right?

For the comment about burning witches. Christianity is barbaric, just like the religion it sprang from, and NEITHER is European in origin.

Today we live in an age almost exactly like that of Galileo. The Earth being the center of the universe has been replaced with other nonsense, except this time most people believing the nonsense is VERY dangerous.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Thrynn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ad Hominem attacks: the first resort of those who have their ideas challenged and who have no real point. Thanks for exposing your nerdrage.

So PERHAPS I was mistake about ONE of the things I said. What about all the others? Are you going to the "whats a little human sacrifice between friends argument" ?

And by all means, all you members of the Multicultural Orthodox Church, go ahead and throw out the "germ warfare" accusation referring to supposed smallpox blankets. I'd love for you to expose more of your embicility.

You do know that germs weren't discovered as the cause of disease until the late 1800s right?

For the comment about burning witches. Christianity is barbaric, just like the religion it sprang from, and NEITHER is European in origin.

Today we live in an age almost exactly like that of Galileo. The Earth being the center of the universe has been replaced with other nonsense, except this time most people believing the nonsense is VERY dangerous.

So all barbarity in Europe all stemmed from religion? And if christianity wasnt an european religion when it spawned, it sure became one once the medieval age came about. Again, double standards. As if Europe doesnt have a wide range of barbarity to pick from to try to paint all europeans as primitive and bloodthirsty. Im sure some hardcore muslim fanatics are doing just that as a recruiting tool.

[Thrynn]

Originally Posted by Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

???



Important war captives were primarily used as sacrifices. Babies were not used. For example, 'los danzantes' (the dancers) are a large group of carvings representing war captives in various states of sacrifice, and each have a specific name written in hieroglyphics. Kings and nobility would have been much more likely to be sacrificed than any other person. They would have also been forced to participate (and lose) in the ritual ball games where the losers were killed.

You conveniently left out the fact that their wars were staged SOLELY to acquire more people to sacrifice. They weren't wars of conquest.

[Thrynn]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So all barbarity in Europe all stemmed from religion?

I have to chuckle. the arguing style of some here is pretty funny.

I said nothing of the kind. Why you're asking this, I have no idea.