Clothesing Threads

[Derubael]

the bda nagafen debacle has nothing to do with this

^ how is it not a similar situation? BDA jumped on a mob that Taken had FTE on, and ended up losing a Nagafen. Chest has been pointing out how the situations are similar and should demand similar punishment since the decision came up.

If we're going to draw parallels and precedent and cite that as written-in-stone rules, then BDA should have been suspended for a week - a full suspension - just like FE got when they jumped a TMO FTE.

Here's another similar situation:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=152382

IB was suspended for... jumping an FTE. Granted, this was a "kill steal" but the actual rule violated was the same one BDA violated in that Nagafen dispute. Why is BDA not calling for themselves to be suspended for a week? Precedent, which we are putting so much stock in, states they should sit out for at least that long.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^ how is it not a similar situation? BDA jumped on a mob that Taken had FTE on, and ended up losing a Nagafen. Chest has been pointing out how the situations are similar and should demand similar punishment since the decision came up.

come on man, BDA "assisted" Taken on the last 20% of their Nagafen kill for fun...
naggy was about to die and a few of our members decided to help finish it off
(other accounts suggest Taken was wiping and we secured the kill for them, which is why we are serving our sentence)
either way, Taken got the loot they deserved for winning FTE

we weren't trying to kill steal naggy or interfere with their raid. BDA gained nothing from helping Taken other than getting to punch a dragon in the butt

chest is upset about it because it happened in FFA and we were punished in class R

my point is that situation and any other past situation doesn't change what happened during Severilous on sunday

Taken did not win the FTE race, and killed the dragon anyway

breaking a well defined rule that the rest of us were adhering to

that's why the entire raiding population, not just BDA, is upset

i'm not trying to argue the decision you guys made

[Rais]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^ how is it not a similar situation? BDA jumped on a mob that Taken had FTE on, and ended up losing a Nagafen. Chest has been pointing out how the situations are similar and should demand similar punishment since the decision came up.

If we're going to draw parallels and precedent and cite that as written-in-stone rules, then BDA should have been suspended for a week - a full suspension - just like FE got when they jumped a TMO FTE.

Here's another similar situation:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=152382

IB was suspended for... jumping an FTE. Granted, this was a "kill steal" but the actual rule violated was the same one BDA violated in that Nagafen dispute. Why is BDA not calling for themselves to be suspended for a week? Precedent, which we are putting so much stock in, states they should sit out for at least that long.

This one is easy to answer. Because they (IB in your example) have numerous infractions of the same rule with in days apart. Thus they were suspended for a week.

Precedent has been Sirken gives a guild a time out on the very next dragon spawn (If it's on their rotation up next they have it off or if FFA is up same deal) . Every single instance of a FTE issue of a guild jumping it, interfering and or taking has lead to the next dragon off. In those instances of guilds who have multiple offenses of this issue were given a week.

It simply boils down to did Taken have FTE? No? Then they broke the rules when they decided to kill the fucking thing anyways. It isn't much easier to go off of than that. Anyone else on the encounter logs don't mean shit since they had no need to remove themselves from a encounter agro list that they don't even see.

If you want to start going back and saying you can punish people for just being on the agro list of encounters they didn't have FTE, then no one would be raiding at all for the next 5 months. Being on the list alone isn't breaking the rules.

TL/DR

Taken gained agro without FTE. They MUST Die/Camp/Zone. Next up on the agro list, they do the same and so on till it resets. If those guilds don't do it, and kill the dragon then they break the FTE rules that are clear.

It's that simple and you or Sirken are reading too much into it and making it harder than it should be. You have every fucking guild on the server in unison saying this.

End result Taken broke the rules with FTE no matter what. They should have the next FFA Sev off if this is their first offense. If it's not, then a week.

[Argh]

Lets keep this thread focused on threads please.

[arsenalpow]

My issue with your handling of the Naggy situation is three fold.

1) Sirken said the issue was done and over. A mans word is supposed to mean something. Just because Unbrella has a micro dick doesn't mean he should be able to harangue you enough to raise the issue from the dead after the case was closed.

2) You show no respect whatsoever. I actively dislike you and I used to actively dislike Sirken but we've buried that hatchet. We had a long talk and ironed out some issues. You still seem to have a very big hard on for BDA. You can say otherwise but ball don't lie. You kept focusing on BDA in regards to the Sev situation unnecessarily when the real issue as it's been said 100x is someone that didn't have FTE killed the dragon. It's inconsequential as to why other people were on the hate list. They needed to get off the list and wait for the reset.

3) BDA is suspended for Class R Naggy for helping to kill a FFA Naggy. Don't cross the streams. TMO blatantly trains BDA in Fear. It was signed off by Unbrella a fucking guild leader. We have 1080p fraps of the encounter and the result is a slap on the wrist. BDA kills 20% of Naggy and now we're out a class R Naggy which puts our next encounter something like 4 months away. I feel like BDA has been singled out numerous times for whatever reason. The first suspension with Trak under completely murky rules, then this Naggy, and now singling us out for Sev when we did nothing wrong.

I want, just like everyone wants, clear and consistent rulings using precedence as a guide. I want a logical thought process and fair rulings across the board.

[Argh]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My issue with your handling of the Naggy situation is three fold.

Couldn't tell if this was a clothing pun or not. If so, touche.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Couldn't tell if this was a clothing pun or not. If so, touche.

Nailed it

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My issue with your handling of the Naggy situation is three fold.

1) Sirken said the issue was done and over. A mans word is supposed to mean something. Just because Unbrella has a micro dick doesn't mean he should be able to harangue you enough to raise the issue from the dead after the case was closed.

2) You show no respect whatsoever. I actively dislike you and I used to actively dislike Sirken but we've buried that hatchet. We had a long talk and ironed out some issues. You still seem to have a very big hard on for BDA. You can say otherwise but ball don't lie. You kept focusing on BDA in regards to the Sev situation unnecessarily when the real issue as it's been said 100x is someone that didn't have FTE killed the dragon. It's inconsequential as to why other people were on the hate list. They needed to get off the list and wait for the reset.

3) BDA is suspended for Class R Naggy for helping to kill a FFA Naggy. Don't cross the streams. TMO blatantly trains BDA in Fear. It was signed off by Unbrella a fucking guild leader. We have 1080p fraps of the encounter and the result is a slap on the wrist. BDA kills 20% of Naggy and now we're out a class R Naggy which puts our next encounter something like 4 months away. I feel like BDA has been singled out numerous times for whatever reason. The first suspension with Trak under completely murky rules, then this Naggy, and now singling us out for Sev when we did nothing wrong.

I want, just like everyone wants, clear and consistent rulings using precedence as a guide. I want a logical thought process and fair rulings across the board.

You're right. I show no respect to this raid community by coming here and explaining the reasoning behind our decisions. I'll stop making that mistake from here on out.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right. I show no respect to this raid community by coming here and explaining the reasoning behind our decisions. I'll stop making that mistake from here on out.

Look I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation with you. You know that's not what I said. It's not easy to be in a position of power, to have decisions picked apart, but that's the burden of leadership.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation with you. You know that's not what I said. It's not easy to be in a position of power, to have decisions picked apart, but that's the burden of leadership.

I'm the only GM dumb enough to come here and explain our position on things. It wears on me, and I'm tired of it - even when we make the right call we get hammered. That's my own fault for putting myself here in front of the community.

We made our decision, I explained our reasoning - which I still stand behind, and won't continue to argue over - and that's where I'm going to leave it from now on.