The troubles with modern MMO's...

[Dunes]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW has shit load more uniqueness in this regard than EQ ever did.

I think most people would agree that WoW (Vanilla WoW) was a good game. Sure, I tend to agree that the oversaturated color palette and over-the-top armor/weapon models and textures were geared to appeal to a younger audience and gain mass market appeal. I also admit to having enjoyed playing through Vanilla WoW, and discovering all the hidden flourishes the developers hid away in the game.

My primary complaint with WoW was that you knew exactly where you were going next after you finished up a hub (the fact that you could even "finish" an area was another problem). Done with Elwynn Forest? Move to Westfall. Done there? Move to Duskwood. Once done there, move to Redridge. Etc etc. The fact that you could solo through all of the content using quest hubs was my other complaint. It played a little too much like a single player game, although admittedly, its one I would have bought and played if it were a single player game [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyway, the original intent of this thread was not to debate the merits of WoW vs EQ. It was meant to look at the evolution of MMO's after vanilla WoW and try to understand why so many of us keep coming back to EQ after 15 years [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Dunes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think most people would agree that WoW (Vanilla WoW) was a good game. Sure, I tend to agree that the oversaturated color palette and over-the-top armor/weapon models and textures were geared to appeal to a younger audience and gain mass market appeal. I also admit to having enjoyed playing through Vanilla WoW, and discovering all the hidden flourishes the developers hid away in the game.

My primary complaint with WoW was that you knew exactly where you were going next after you finished up a hub (the fact that you could even "finish" an area was another problem). Done with Elwynn Forest? Move to Westfall. Done there? Move to Duskwood. Once done there, move to Redridge. Etc etc. The fact that you could solo through all of the content using quest hubs was my other complaint. It played a little too much like a single player game, although admittedly, its one I would have bought and played if it were a single player game [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyway, the original intent of this thread was not to debate the merits of WoW vs EQ. It was meant to look at the evolution of MMO's after vanilla WoW and try to understand why so many of us keep coming back to EQ after 15 years [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well WoW graphical style is a taste thing (not the biggest fan but I love Blood Elves), but overall - gameplay is more important. Out of all the games I saw, I still claim Luclin models as #1 favorites (for most races). As far as WoW solo everything - that was the designers original intent - game supports all modes - solo, group and raid. And I actually like this approach. How many people in EQ DESPERATELY tried and still trying to solo despite the fact that game is not designed this way (and some clases clearly OP in this regard over others)? Nothing wrong with WoW offering you 3 types of gameplay to choose from. This is freedom. If I have 4 hours of free time to burn - I do raids, if Only have 30 min, I will run a small solo quest. works great for my limited time.

As far as quest guiding goes- well yeah having quest goal clearly marked on your map kind of ridiculous, and defeats the point of actually searching for the quest. But giving players general suggestion - you should go to zone X next cause it suits your level range is fine, cause otherwise players will do what they do in EQ - they go to alla or to the forums and start asking where is the best place to XP at lev X. Same crap.

[phacemeltar]

Originally Posted by Dunes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think most people would agree that WoW (Vanilla WoW) was a good game.

no pet weapons = shit
no class specific armor at lower levels = shit
so much underdeveloped area = shit
total ripoff of the best selling mmo at the time = shitty move


wow.. i just dont get why people say its so good (although the pvp system was pretty cool at some points) i remember thinking they were going to add actual content to the game-world during xpac, and being disappointed when they only added a new island + a few mobs and called it a day.

[hillgiantchamp]

Eq feels more natural and not like your in a video game. I like the feel of naturally wondering mobs running through forests or open fields. Most modern MMOs have the same mobs in little groups everywhere that all have HP bars and names above their head, saying its level. It just doesn't feel as natural as eq can be. I like the mystery of not knowing what level the mob is or exactly its hit points unless targeted etc. Makes it more of a challenge and the mob your fighting doesn't look like a cartoon with damage numbers coming off its head and health bars everywhere just making everything feel like a video game and not a natural surrounding. I do agree a game that is more challenging and forces you to ask questions or seek help from others is much more fun them a game that walks you through one story line and holding your hand the whole way.

[hillgiantchamp]

Not having a map is great to. Makes you learn your surroundings and really feel a sense of attachment to the world your playing in. makes game play feel more realistic and natural. Not spending a majority of your time mindlessly following dots and arrows on a map not actual looking at the content your travelling on. Classic eqers had to find landmarks etc to get around and therefore be more immersed into the RPG

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Dunes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My hypothesis is that we will have similar likes and dislikes given that we all know/love EQ and for the most part curse modern MMOs.

Secrets and I started a pretty good discussion on this topic monday night, but as usual, we got distracted (link- http://youtu.be/8FlvNheQ0Ew)

the only thing id disagree with is the in game voice chat. a lot of the time its xbox live community types, especially if i had to deal with nerds from PUGs. for guilds sure it would be nice. but other than that, i dont need my grinding immersion ruined by highpitched mouthbreathing neckbeards that weren't hugged enough as a child.

then again, maybe im just jaded.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Secrets and I started a pretty good discussion on this topic monday night, but as usual, we got distracted (link- http://youtu.be/8FlvNheQ0Ew)

the only thing id disagree with is the in game voice chat. a lot of the time its xbox live community types, especially if i had to deal with nerds from PUGs. for guilds sure it would be nice. but other than that, i dont need my grinding immersion ruined by highpitched mouthbreathing neckbeards that weren't hugged enough as a child.

then again, maybe im just jaded.

Agreed.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Secrets and I started a pretty good discussion on this topic monday night, but as usual, we got distracted (link- http://youtu.be/8FlvNheQ0Ew)

the only thing id disagree with is the in game voice chat. a lot of the time its xbox live community types, especially if i had to deal with nerds from PUGs. for guilds sure it would be nice. but other than that, i dont need my grinding immersion ruined by highpitched mouthbreathing neckbeards that weren't hugged enough as a child.

then again, maybe im just jaded.

console babies are what ruined gaming

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by Dunes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TL

Im going to have to disagree with the itemization; There are very few uniquely modeled items in EQ and those are usually very specifically geared to a particular class, or only usable by a select few.

Mind you when I refer to moden MMO's I very specifically have WoW in mind; Not present day, but vanilla.

The itemization on WoW was awesome, eq (at least classic) has an extremely limited item pool, if you're making a character there are only about 3 or 4 pieces per slot but budget range-- because face it if you can't scrape together 10k what does it matter how sweet that sword looks?

Not only were the weapon models far more diversified, but the stat arrangements were also far more varied; I like the model of giving A standard item and having a "dice roll" determine at random what stats will pop up on it when looted. Specifically regarding this, I remember after Gates of Discord came out I was rolling some sort of wisdom class and I found myself searching the bazaar for affordable and usable items, and I came up with a lot of the same stuff that I was using on my druid-- very first live toon during Velious. That to me is just off.

I also liked the animations in Wow-- watching my undead rogue reach up and parry+ riposte, rather thanw atching for text was nice.

probably get flamed to hell for this, but WoW, in it's early years, did a LOT of things right.

[Dunes]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mind you when I refer to moden MMO's I very specifically have WoW in mind; Not present day, but vanilla.

I agree! I mentioned somewhere in the wall the vanilla WoW was okay (actually, it was pretty good once you get past the over-the-topness of it all). Pretty much everything following Vanilla WoW is where things unraveled. Keep in mind that vanilla WoW was released just 5 years after EQ did (2004ish). It still tried to tread the line between mass-market appeal and catering to people like us.

Regarding models, yes, EQ had very limited models for weapons and armor. But you still had red plate, black plate, grey plate, etc etc. You can look at a player and generally have a decent idea of what they are wearing. The newest MMO's (those made in the last decade), with some exceptions for end-game content, have chain model, plate model, leather model, etc with very limited changes in appearance as you level.

Anyway, EQ is by no means perfect (blasphemy!), but there is something about the struggle, the grind, the companionship, and the loss that makes classic EQ far superior to any of the modern MMOs.