Game Mechanics: Lazy Mobs Kunark / Velious

[Daldaen]

It is almost impossible to outdistance a mob 600' in less than the 10s summon refresh.

The only scenario I can think of is gating across a zone. In which case I believe the de-aggro/forget would occur. It would be as though the mob is unaggroed and go into fast-regen mode.

[Raev]

The funniest part about this will be A/A trying to resurrect train pulls. There is absolutely no way that anyone will accept actually clearing. 600 units is quite a bit, and I'm guessing that the solution will involve a lot of POM bound Necromancers with DA and TL boxes.

[Caiu]

600 units is the distance from Aary to the eashen steps roughly. No this will not be hard to defeat at all until the removal of binding in ToV. Please implement both changes at the same time for an actual challenge.

[Daldaen]

The 10 minute thing is correct, atleast it was on Al'Kabor. It was demonstrated by players there before the server came down. However such a unique aggro mechanic will be very difficult to prove the inception of it. Especially since from 1999-2001 people were still figuring out the basics of the game. You had clerics complaining about the OP nature of Druids and warrior complaining about how good Paladins had it on raids...

But basically, if you're attacking the mob or building aggro in any way, the 10 min timer wouldn't matter. It was only like... kiting a mob around for 10 min without generating any aggro.

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 10 minute thing is correct, atleast it was on Al'Kabor. It was demonstrated by players there before the server came down. However such a unique aggro mechanic will be very difficult to prove the inception of it. Especially since from 1999-2001 people were still figuring out the basics of the game. You had clerics complaining about the OP nature of Druids and warrior complaining about how good Paladins had it on raids...

But basically, if you're attacking the mob or building aggro in any way, the 10 min timer wouldn't matter. It was only like... kiting a mob around for 10 min without generating any aggro.

Oh fair enough.

[lurk]

Lazy agro definitely varied by mobs or zone or something. Idk but the thing about getting trak to summon you is accurate. That is how he was solo'd. Trakanon might not have had lazy agro. I recall the original boastful bellow AA had no LoS check and some crazy range. Thott posted about it somewhere how he used it to pull trakanon to zone in.

Its crazy how i even remember this little shit from so long ago

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by lurk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lazy agro definitely varied by mobs or zone or something. Idk but the thing about getting trak to summon you is accurate. That is how he was solo'd. Trakanon might not have had lazy agro. I recall the original boastful bellow AA had no LoS check and some crazy range. Thott posted about it somewhere how he used it to pull trakanon to zone in.

Its crazy how i even remember this little shit from so long ago

That quote verifies what you're saying. They're saying you need to pull him to a spot so when you're banished you'll be inside his lazy aggro range so you get summoned back, otherwise youll be too far away and he won't summon you. So I'm agreeing with you, you are right.

[Daldaen]

Boastful Bellow had unlimited range, did not require line of sight and could be used while DA (this was honestly the most OP aspect of the ability)

I remember trying to solo Trakanon later on (70 or so), and if you didn't pull Trakanon to around the one-way door area with the Reets, he wouldn't summon you back after a banish. A little before that works too, in those jugg/reet tunnels.

I suspect summon didn't work if outside the lazy aggro code for banishing and gating mobs *generally*. But perhaps the way the server was coded, on ticks, it was possible on certain gates the mob could instantly summon the first person back, and then the next tick would occur and the mob would check if anyone in its aggro list is within their lazy aggro range, at which point they would stop trying to summon or chase anyone.

What I'm curious on, is what happens when you have two people. Let's say a Druid with 3000 Hate from snaring and a Warrior with 6000 Hate from tanking. If that Druid stays near the mob, and the warrior runs far away, eventually the mob should turn on the Druid and chase him because the Druid is within his lazy aggro radius. But what happens when the warrior returns? If the 10minute aggro dump rule occurs the warrior would of course have a clean slate and not be on aggro. But if he returns before the 10 minutes, it should theoretically break off the Druid and continue to chase him when back in Range. Could make for some interesting pulls if well coordinated.

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember trying to solo Trak. And wasn't getting summoned back. Because I was too far away.

I am going to try and get lazy aggro coded up this week.

I soloed Trakanon almost everyday in PoP and Gates (made a lute for UDB to spawn him). I was that SK; wish SK.org or TSW still stood. There's a log that I have posted here of my soloing if you have any doubts. It's also available on Allakhazam's way back machine.

Anyhow a few things.
Normally when you did Trakanon, you ran up and smacked him and he would banish you. He had a rune (necromancer) and his banish was off-cooldown, so you wouldn't do much damage. I generally used my Vanazir for 30MR (along with stuff like RoR which was 60 MR) as his deadly lifetap was the only concerning thing. However, during Gates I started using my Barxt Javelin which hit a lot harder and ran into the issue of bringing him below 97% before I was banished.

You would always clear the banish room prior to engaging him and you needed to clear any nearby Adepts that room or were in the nearby room (there is another room nearby that you reach by turning left when facing the tube-shoot to Juggs). These dudes would CHeal him through walls, without being aggroed on you. As an SK, killing an adept with another nearby was the hardest part of soloing Trakanon. Got a lot easier when I purchased the Timestone Ring from CT which mana-drained these bastards.

Trakanon was social with Myconids and you didn't want adds. Luckily, Trakanon corpse camps for a long time. So, you wait until got Trakanon to the area right outside the banish room right in the Myconid area with the tube shoot to Juggs. You would then FD. After aggro cleared, you would FD pet pull him single into the banish room. If you aren't familiar with pet pulling, you would FD, /pet attack, then /pet hold (or spam pet back). After your pet hit the mob once, you could stand up/move and the mob would come single provided your pet didnt hit it again. This worked on every single non-linked mob in the game, the only limiting factor was pet HP (which things caster NPCs or bestow DA solved).

Anyhow, that's enough for strategy, just wanted to give some background.

I started using mySEQ in Gates of Discord, so everything was very visual. If you engaged Trakanon in the back of his lair and were banished, he would not summon you. You did remain on his aggro list though. MySEQ had a delay on showing far-away NPC movement, so it is difficult to accurately say his behavior. To clarify on that, he would update on MySEQ as making jumps. Generally got about 3 movement updates on MySEQ all indicating he was moving toward you. Around the time he would reach the Jugg Area, his movement was synched up with mySEQ.

Now for the times when I took him to sub 97% prior to banish. I never was immediately resummoned into the layer, but Trak would not regenerate as if he was out-of-combat. He would; however, chase me. The first summon would be around bridge outside his lair or the ramp up into his lair where him and a few juggs would be waiting. Then, after another banish, I would usually get summoned again in the Reet tunnels, and then one last time on the Juggs door. After that, he was usually in my spot where I pulled him from.

He had to have chased me somewhat to get to the area where I always got first summoned. To my knowledge, many NPC summon abilities have a maximum distance. Call of the Zero is 600, I'm not sure what Trakanon uses, but my experiences indicate that his chase range is longer than the maximum distance on his summon ability.

Deviating from that a bit: do you plan on implementing leashes in the sense that if no player is X-distance from the NPC, the NPC returns back (but maintains it's aggro list, so it will chase a player who gets within X-distance) or do you plan on having it such that if the NPC is Y-distance from it's spawn, it leashes. I would strongly argue that the former is the proper mechanic.

[Haynar]

I remember trying to solo Trak. And wasn't getting summoned back. Because I was too far away.

I am going to try and get lazy aggro coded up this week.