The Deru' Plan C discussion

[Derubael]

Everyone seems to be forgetting a really important part of that Rogean post...

Originally Posted by Rogean

Starting today and then evaluated when Velious is released the CSR staff will be keeping track of how the raid guilds are treating eachother. If we do not see a significant improvement in the behavior of the raiding guilds and how they treat eachother, Velious will be released without raid content. To be clear, we want an enjoyable raid scene for everyone, not just one or two guilds. This means working together to figure out a compromise when racing for mobs, and working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters.

I think Preparation C does that quite nicely. Oops, I mean Proposition C.

Also, to the entire forum community, let's stop trying to make posts/threads bashing the other side for the way they play. Both casuals and hardcore's have a legitimate claim to this server, and shouldn't come under fire for the way they enjoy the game.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone seems to be forgetting a really important part of that Rogean post...



I think Preparation C does that quite nicely. Oops, I mean Proposition C.

Also, to the entire forum community, let's stop trying to make posts/threads bashing the other side for the way they play. Both casuals and hardcore's have a legitimate claim to this server, and shouldn't come under fire for the way they enjoy the game.

Agreed, though what ever system is chosen I hope effort = reward takes precedence while allowing non-competitive guilds a taste of raid mobs.

[falkun]

Derubael, your proposal does not cover mobs being left up. If tier1 first spawn mobs are left up indetinately then the t1 ffa period gets screwed. If they arent killed fast enough, t1 guilds complain, and finally if they are put to FFA too fast the t2 guilds will not have time to kill. The divinty propsal has time limits that allows tier2 mobs to go to ffa. Its also moves the gamesmanship (read: competition) from the engage to properly selecting targets you can mobilize for, which meets the csr goal of reducing asshattery. These large periods where tier2 guilds have to compete, on tier1 standards, with tier1 guilds is what tier2 guilds are trying to avoid because no one has discussed anything that decreases the historic asshattery during engages/fte.

Maybe if competing against tier1 was not so ugly, tier2 could get on board with the suggestion. In my experience, tmo (as an example of tier1) will only adhere to the letter of the law and not the intent. That is what tier2 guilds are trying to avoid dealing with.

[Derubael]

It's easy to set limits on rotated mobs, ie, you must engage within X hours.

Makes everyone happy. Proposition C is just a 'bare bones' core rule proposal. Specifics can be worked out if everyone agrees to the proposal itself.

[Seltius]

Plan C sounds like some weird birth control pill for the raid scene. Guess it beats Preparation H

[falkun]

So tier2 relinquished any aspirations of tier1 holing up in the loot pinata of vp. Tier1 then comes back and says thats not enough. Then tier1 starts pushing tier2 guilds to compete with tier1 without any stipulations that protect tier2 (or tier1) from fte, fraps, and petitionquest. If you'd like tier2 to compete, dial down the bullshit meter. Since no one has offered anything on that front, tier2 would just like to avoid it.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So tier2 relinquished any aspirations of tier1 holing up in the loot pinata of vp. Tier1 then comes back and says thats not enough. Then tier1 starts pushing tier2 guilds to compete with tier1 without any stipulations that protect tier2 (or tier1) from fte, fraps, and petitionquest. If you'd like tier2 to compete, dial down the bullshit meter. Since no one has offered anything on that front, tier2 would just like to avoid it.

for FTE u have fte shouts
Fraps are there to protect u !.
Petitionquest isnt what u doing to avoid competition?, what if GM forced u to it ?. no one likes to be forced isnt it ?.

what u fear, vp is not anymore train territory , FTE shouts are there to let you know who engaged first so u dont kill the other guild mob .


what stop you since ur guild have the keys to zone in vp chek if anything is up , call ur friends and kill it?.

[Hitpoint]

People in the raid discussion forum act like we aren't already giving up way more than we think is fair. Every single one of these proposals is terrible for us, we're only losing while you're only gaining. We tried proposals, and they got shot down because they didn't give enough. This started out as upper guilds being asked to share mobs, and we tried to do that. Now it's devolved into the other guilds taking as much as they can get. We offered 7 days of full casual rotation, you said 14, we offered 10, you said 14. Where is the compromise? Derubael's deal is close to it.

We (regular fe members) aren't allowed to post in that section of the boards. But from talks among us it's pretty much unanimous that Rogean's proposal isn't acceptable whatsoever, so stop pretending like it's a real possibility. There's like 5 other deals we'd take before that one.

[falkun]

Art, i apologize if i misinterpret. Even with fte shouts, sirken noted this mess began because every kill involved a petition, and that was when only feib and tmo were participating. With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Art, i apologize if i misinterpret. Even with fte shouts, sirken noted this mess began because every kill involved a petition, and that was when only feib and tmo were participating. With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

Because TMO is under new leadership who may not support all this petition quest BS. I can tell you we never wanted to participate to begin with.