re: Item Loot, err, Spell Resists!

[Cid]

I am not really sure how this is supposed to help the server. Yes, it will give melee a better chance to resist spells, but the people wearing raid gear will become even harder to cast on as well. Hell, with the massive increases to resistance at 100ish to the resists, people who now can stack up to 200+ resists can take a few pieces off to stack more hp.

A vast majority of this server are caster or priest classes and, besides some of the shamans, are terrible at meleeing and rely almost entirely on spells to do damage. This will help increase the longevity of casual players to an extent, but will make all casters less capable of defending themselves in a fight.
If you think lvl 52s are helpless against 60s now, just imagine that 60 with a 17% higher chance to resist.

I think the system you are suggesting is perfectly fine and would work amazingly well if implemented at launch on a server, but Red has existed for 2 years now with different systems for resists which resulted in a massive disparity in class populations. This is not Live! This is not Classic! We all know where everything drops and to avoid being Rangers. There's a fraction of the paladins there should be, and if not for Harmtouch there would likely be half the SKs or less. How many monks exist only because Tstaff was broken sooooo long? Or how many bards to use the bugged highsun?

None of us should be comparing Red to a memory 14 years old because memory is fallible and almost always wrong. What was done on Blahblah Zek server is not automatically going to work here, and could be detrimental in the end.

Red needs more people and if we all put forth even half the effort being spent on speculating about Teams99 then Red99 would probably be a lot more inviting and enjoyable.

We're too far gone for changing something this essential without it having unexpected consequences. Also, can we finally drop whole classic/non-classic thing? No one began EQ knowing where each item dropped, every strategy for raid events, all the best resist gear, and there definitely weren't multiple websites devoted solely to EQ. Knowing and having access to this information has changed how we play, who we play, and sometimes why we play.
If Red was close to 50% melee and 50% caster it would work better, but I believe the number of casters is closer to 70-80% of the population. 7 out of every 10 losing dmg and dps, then the last 3 out of 10 only get better from it.

If there are 20 repetitions of the same item loot B.S. and that server isn't coming out for maybe a year, can you just imagine how much this collective of rational and level-headed scholars will love this when they realize it makes a VP geared character much, much harder to kill. It might even become impossible to casters who could win before.

P.S. I kept dozing off typing this, so, sorry if parts sound like I am a madman.

[Bazia]

thats the problem retard the only people who can get appropriate resist now are the people fully decked in endgame resist gear

make the shit classic so i dont have to eat draughts just because im not in full vp/trak/other shit

[Nizzarr]

150/75/0 is pretty much classic resists.

I really dont like putting all spells in the same resists bucket though. What about spells with two components that had double resists checks like stuns with damage, roots with damage, dots with damage(shaman dots), enchanter DD/stuns etc

[Lasher]

One thing to take note on is certain spells that just seemed to always land or a great deal. I played an ench on live and yes MOST MR spells didnt do shit against an ok geared toon, except chaotic feedback. I used that spell from 1999 to 2003. Like a 30 dmg nuke, interupt spell. I hate to see that spell get thrown in with root and snare. Its always been a fun spell because it landed but wasnt over powered since it was just an interupt and not like a long stun and the dmg was so low

[Agatha]

anything having to do with slow is broken as fuck, bard snare with the slow component, broken as fuck, slow landing almost every time on someone with 150mr, broken as fuck.

[Lasher]

Is it velious that all debuff resist spells do 1.5 in pvp?

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really dont like putting all spells in the same resists bucket

yes. If this graph were to be used for nukes, i think it would be way too much... outright resisting nukes over 50% of the time at 95 fire resist (at least in kunark, maybe this is OK in classic). But Alecta, I'm thinking if it "resists" here, then it will have a partial check? With the partial check itself having a range at which it would be fully resisted?

I think spell classes should be individually tweaked - like disease was hard to resist, poison not as hard, fire/cold nukes on the same page i think? and magic nukes didn't land as well as fire/cold (but maybe due to everyone having this resist pumped). -- i don't know maybe they were all in reality on the same curve but it didn't feel that way..

Also please put in the "low level spell" mods - low level spells always landed easier (some were basically unresistable). Useful for many classes, the low level spells could paradoxically be some of the best, like the low level enchanter nukes that have stun component..... always kept the lowest level, and sometimes the lowest 2 levels (2nd lowest resisted more), of my nuke up - dealt like 30 damage but that stun was what was important. Lower level spells landing were a real utility, and pretty balanced even, because they were low level so the effects weren't that harsh.

As for the graph: Alecta, I think for Classic your curve looks good, as long as when it gets "resisted" it goes to the partial check, and isn't getting straight up fully resisted. Then the Partials function becomes more important - i'd like to see the curve for that. I think the main thing with Null's code is however he's doing partials they don't appear to reduce much damage.


My overall fear is that casters will be turned into giant gimps that get steamrolled. But since this system can be tweaked on the fly, it's not that bad of a thing to experiment.

Suggestions:

Classic: Alecta's
P1. 165
P2. 60
P3. 50

Kunark: Inbetween
P1. 170
P2. 90
P3. 45

Velious: Null's
P1. 190
P2. 270
P3. 15

[Pudge]

heh. lasher i had my post sitting here overnight basically, then i post and see we both remember that shitty enchanter nuke the same way, and how good they actually were.

don't remember if that debuff thing was associated with an era. it might have just been a feature of sullon

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Alecta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Currently the partial curves look something like this:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(though there are some additional checks not represented that let high roll nukes land for full).

So if you eyeball it:

RESIST	LOW 	HIGH (DAMAGE %'s)
75	92%	100%
100	73%	100%
125	61%	93%
150	52%	84%
175	45%	77%
200	40%	71%
225	35%	67%
250	32%	64%

I'm additionally looking at critical failures for pure nukes, where you will fully resist them at the rate of 1.2% per resistance point. (9% @ 75fr, 18% @ 150fr, 30% @ 255 fr).

So my questions are:

1. What do you think the partial resist curves should look like (feel free to bust out paint)?
2. What do you think as far as outright resists on pure nuke spells?
3. And for the inevitable "Make it classic" folks, please define your remembrances of classic. In terms of questions 1 & 2 above.

Thanks for inputs. This thread will be moderated & off topic posts deleted.

ah, i found this. looking at the graph, I'd say the "partials" area is way too condensed - give it some room to breathe, have partials land for a wider range, by dragging that bottom blue line down considerably. and also adding the "critical failure" (as well as keep the high-roll full damage) feature. (I'm still assuming a "resist" on the OP graph actually means "roll for a partial")

[Lasher]

I havent played in a long time but is it still impossible to resist any nuke regardless of how high your resists were. I played a bard and if timed correctly i would pump my FR high when i suspected a sunstrike coming in but it would still land and the partial would still hurt