Partials in PvP

[Thrilla]

Without getting too deep into %'s and numbers cuz I suck at math but just the simple eye test tells me that straight classic resists could be potentially game breaking for casters on this server, why you ask. Simple. On RZ most people ran with only nodrop gear, which directly affected their resist numbers and allowed the potential for more spells to land bcause poeple were too scared of wearing that Froglok Bonecaster Robe in fear of losing it.

On here, no such fear exists and because of that you'll have everyone running at nearly full resist numbers and some VP geared players would be nearly untouchable, so the server would turn into a melee rape fest, and with the future in mind (Velious) this problem would be even greater.

The simple solution and it may have been mentioned in this thread is to still give a certain % of a spell landing for full dmg regardless of the opposing players resist set, maybe 25%? enough to where it may still reward a caster taking the gamble.

Another thing I'd like to see somewhat fixed is to either increase the cast time on Cure pots or make curing a poison/disease dot take 3-4 charges as opposed to 1-2, this could help out DoT classes a lot.

[SamwiseRed]

Originally Posted by Thrilla [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Without getting too deep into %'s and numbers cuz I suck at math but just the simple eye test tells me that straight classic resists could be potentially game breaking for casters on this server, why you ask. Simple. On RZ most people ran with only nodrop gear, which directly affected their resist numbers and allowed the potential for more spells to land bcause poeple were too scared of wearing that Froglok Bonecaster Robe in fear of losing it.

On here, no such fear exists and because of that you'll have everyone running at nearly full resist numbers and some VP geared players would be nearly untouchable, so the server would turn into a melee rape fest, and with the future in mind (Velious) this problem would be even greater.

The simple solution and it may have been mentioned in this thread is to still give a certain % of landing regardless of the opposing players resist set, maybe 25%? enough to where it may still reward a caster taking the gamble.

Another thing I'd like to see somewhat fixed is to either increase the cast time on Cure pots or make curing a poison/disease dot take 3-4 charges as opposed to 1-2, this could help out DoT classes a lot.

Thrilla is sometimes delusional but this is not one of those times. No risk vs going all out on resists = every melee in Nilly being John Rambo. Mite as well keep an army of melees camped at spawns to contest if resists go to pure classic. Shit is gonna be game breaking unless you add item loot.

[Colgate]

asking for a nuke to never be fully resisted and asking for them to have a chance to land for full regardless of resists is absolute insanity

i sure love itemizing entirely against fire nukes and having some droolcup level player land a 1100 damage sunstrike on me

best implementation? classic resists with item loot and a +4/-4 level range

realistic implementation for the thin-skinned playerbase here? discouraging the use of nukes on every class that has them especially if the player is focusing on that resist

[Elspeth]

resists are fine as they are aside from the currently broken mezzs and slows

[Silikten]

I specifically remember playing my mage and getting full red resists on PDM players. Only after mala would i even get at scars around 200dmg. The mage was solely about pet control. Then occassionally casting scars for quick damage.

This was during mid velious though.

I like how the current system is. With 117 base cold i get partials all day long.

[Colgate]

i can get 97 base cold and still take full damage draughts consistently, maybe a high partial 1 in every 4 casts

4 draughts and i'm dead if i'm unbuffed which is pretty silly in group/mass pvp

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Alecta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Currently the partial curves look something like this:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(though there are some additional checks not represented that let high roll nukes land for full).

So if you eyeball it:

RESIST	LOW 	HIGH (DAMAGE %'s)
75	92%	100%
100	73%	100%
125	61%	93%
150	52%	84%
175	45%	77%
200	40%	71%
225	35%	67%
250	32%	64%

I'm additionally looking at critical failures for pure nukes, where you will fully resist them at the rate of 1.2% per resistance point. (9% @ 75fr, 18% @ 150fr, 30% @ 255 fr).

So my questions are:

1. What do you think the partial resist curves should look like (feel free to bust out paint)?
2. What do you think as far as outright resists on pure nuke spells?
3. And for the inevitable "Make it classic" folks, please define your remembrances of classic. In terms of questions 1 & 2 above.

Thanks for inputs. This thread will be moderated & off topic posts deleted.

Trying to understand this graph. What does "pure nukes that would have been outright resisted" mean? Does this mean null modified previous PvP/pve code to make it so no spell was ever resisted, and instead partialed?

Instead of scaling resists with level (which helps twins even more) I think resists should scale with server timeline.

Also in general I'm afraid of casters getting too gimped. In general

[Alecta]

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Trying to understand this graph. What does "pure nukes that would have been outright resisted" mean? Does this mean null modified previous PvP/pve code to make it so no spell was ever resisted, and instead partialed?

Correct. As it is today under Null's system, If a pure nuke would have been resisted, it's damage range is instead scaled down.

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instead of scaling resists with level (which helps twins even more) I think resists should scale with server timeline. Also in general I'm afraid of casters getting too gimped. In general

I agree. One of the goals in this tweaking is to find values that work for red right now, but definitely will consider lower values for classic and higher values for Velious (or 1.5 debuffs in velious, etc). That's the nice thing about having these systems parameterized.

Anyway, am on vacation right now for a week or so, will bump this with some proposed changes when I get back.

[ledbedder]

Back in classic/beta, there was a change that made it very easy to interrupt spells. Melees were given a 5% chance to interrupt a spell with each hit which stacked. Melee damage was also increased. This worked in classic because melee weapons sucked and melee haste was hard to get.

This was never removed after kunark, and with monks with epics, and rogues with ragebringers, it has become incredibly easy to chain interrupt any spell over 5 seconds if a melee is hasted or multiple melees are on the same caster.

More to the point, melee one handed damage is way too high on this server.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=105838

I have a druid (60) and a shaman (60), I rolled a shaman because I thought the extra AC would mitigate the damage from melees that the druid was taking in pvp, and when that didn't work, I rolled a warrior (57) to benefit from the same broken code. One on one, my warrior destroys casters, all my pvp points on the leaderboard are from killing casters 1v1.

For some reason, this does not seem to affect 2handed damage.

Last thing I'll mention, as part of the context of melee damage being too high, is that rogue backstabs are landing for full too often. I played a rogue with a ragebringer during kunark/velious on live, and as a woodelf with low str (because i ran around in full resist gear), i rarely hit people for full damage unless they were sitting.

[ledbedder]

i posted that here because any discussion about changing classic resists should include a discussion about melee damage at the same time, because they're both broken