PVP Talks tonight decide Red99 fate

[abacab-winner]

80% of Nihlium's core CHOSE to be in Nihlium they aren't the founders of the guild or the founders alts, they saw Nizzar slaying a few dragons and decided they want loot too and joined up, it only sealed the deal when any opposition to Nihlium is a disorganized train-wreck of narcissists, trolls and faggots that can't keep a guild going for more than a month much less muster the coordination to do a basic planes clear.

[abacab-winner]

Originally Posted by lite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that's just it. The fact that some people are weaker than others when it comes to their pixel need, that is a factor. However, those would stick around a little longer in the 2nd tier guild if there was the occasional trakanon kill yielded from it spawning during a jug farm session, Rather than at Exact o clock for nihilum's already present 40 + army.

Nihlium didn't ALWAYS have a zerg force capable of doing that, that was formed over time because Nihlium was waay more devoted, organized, and didn't have a caustic group of players dedicated to griefing as its core.

You got gun smoked not in PvP, you just got out-classed, out-lead, out-raided.

[lite]

Or innoruk during a hate cleanup....In order to monopolize a mob, you'd have to have a force there for 24+ hours at all time as leaving an afk Tracker in this server is not an option. Then it becomes a fight of who wants it more. Who is willing to hold zone control to wait for this mob. That is real EQ. Not this candyland bullshit that people have gotten so used to, sync your watches. win.

[lite]

There hasn't been a point in time when Nihilum didn't have superior numbers. Except during that week when we took all mobs from them. But I am not looking to get into an argument over who did what, and why the other guild didn't succeed. Ect. I am simply interested in providing a solution to the present state of affairs. You are taking this thread in an awful direction, this is not the intended purpose.

[abacab-winner]

Originally Posted by lite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or innoruk during a hate cleanup....In order to monopolize a mob, you'd have to have a force there for 24+ hours at all time as leaving an afk Tracker in this server is not an option. Then it becomes a fight of who wants it more. Who is willing to hold zone control to wait for this mob. That is real EQ. Not this candyland bullshit that people have gotten so used to, sync your watches. win.

Real EQ had a population burgeoning over 2k per server, with multiple guilds in every time zone; fuck most mobs were sniped at 4 AM by Chinese guilds pre-PoP. You don't have that here, most people playing are on the east-coast and the population is sub-200... It's never going to be like live or how "real EQ" was because to be honest you're playing a totally different game that has the same content as EQ.

[Stasis01]

Abacab isn't incorrect, and there will always be a top guild if it's not Nihilum it will be someone else.

The difference is their ability to take every single raid mob in an easy fashion, and new players having no incentive to log in - they get griefed/shit talked by faggots out the gate.

Like I said before, Nihilum chases around low level heresy groups to grief them off the box - including planar trash raids immersed as fuck.

There needs to be improvement to make people have safe areas - I am not totally in favor of safe zones, and tend to lean more towards teams to include that casual fun pvp feel of defending a zone for your team and backing up others that are hardcoded on your team. Not everyone grief everyone and quit.

Like Lite said, no variance allows for 1 guild - with variance there might be smaller guilds, or even maybe a second guild that could poach things.

The problem with red99 - is it's probably too far gone, and Nihilum already has a full geared raid force of about 30 people who have no lives and dedicate their time to ruining anyone that isn't in their guild, even if it's just for planar trash - this type of attitude/behavior was enabled by the rule set, and created a toxic environment.

It isn't Nihilums fault, or the people that joined them - they realised what the rule set allows for, which is one hardcore guild - no casuals, no journey players, no second/third guild or smaller crews. So they quit.

[Stasis01]

The only reason Rallos succeeded was because it was a different Era of gaming - that's it, and it shows now how it plays out with grief mentality age of gaming.

[abacab-winner]

Originally Posted by lite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There hasn't been a point in time when Nihilum didn't have superior numbers. Except during that week when we took all mobs from them. But I am not looking to get into an argument over who did what, and why the other guild didn't succeed. Ect. I am simply interested in providing a solution to the present state of affairs. You are taking this thread in an awful direction, this is not the intended purpose.

I'd say deal with it.

You're suffering because Chewie is too busy coining noobs in Guk, you're suffering because people would rather twink toons and roll Unrest; you have had the potential of forming a sizable opposition countless of times; but sadly the only people you can muster for your opposition are 3rd-stringer VZ/TZ rejects that didn't make the Torrent/TDT cut before the box dropped for the final time.

Essentially the only people you have to choose for the good fight are a bunch of losers that only know how to pad numbers and screenshot kills with their gank squads, that have never even attempted mass PvP on any scale outside a 5v1 SolB gankfest.

You're bound to lose anyway, even if you had the numbers and the gear.

[Loto]

Originally Posted by Old_PVP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything good has already been suggested somewhere else throughout this forum's history. In short, make the server closer to either a Rallos Zek or Sullon Zek type ruleset, with everything that entails.


EXP LOSS/TEAMS

If there is exp loss with pvp, then add teams. People are here for the pvp, not to grind back boring PvE exp. Exp loss in pvp is a big turn off early on, and it causes new people to quit more often than not. Teams provide a little extra security at the low levels with zone control and allies to group with, and keeps new people here just long enough that they get invested in their character. Sullon had exp loss with exp bonus in PvE, but teams are also required for this model to work I think.

ITEM LOOT

Whether it is a FFA or team based server, I think item loot is a great mechanic in order to keep people in line. I know this is an unpopular idea to many people, but there are a ton of benefits to item loot, that believe it or not are all healthy to a pvp server.

1.) It allows the underdogs of the server the potential to make a difference and affect the top guilds.
2.) It adds an extra edge of excitement and thrill to the game that you would not get otherwise.
3.) There is no pvp adrenaline rush that compares to possibly losing some of your gear.
4.) It cuts back on overpowered twinks.
5.) It allows undergeared, lower level players to band together and employ guerrilla warfare tactics to devastating effect, and actually cause serious consequences and monetary loss to otherwise untouchable people.
6.) Keeps the economy in check, no longer will droppables, rare or common, be ridiculously overpriced.
7.) Bragging rights, and we all know half the fun of pvp is the trash talk, both before and after.


Developers/GMs read this and take notes: Item loot is without a doubt, the most hardcore PVP mechanic that can be introduced on a server, and has been proven to survive and thrive in PVP communities. (Disregarding stupidly hardcore rulesets such as Discord, that just went full retard, and didn't last very long.)

I see some people saying that "item loot would be the death of the server/population". When there is no evidence that would suggest this. Sullon Zek had the lowest population on live, and they had EXP LOSS in pvp, without item loot. Rallos Zek started it all with being the first pvp server in EQ, and they were a thriving server full of guild wars all throughout it's history. And before someone starts flaming, I know SZ, TZ/VZ all had some badass PVP as well, I participated heavily in SZ particularly. (They were also team based, and thats an entirely different issue) My point is that item loot enriched, not destroyed, the pvp experience. There is actually more evidence to suggest this than there is otherwise.

Just take a look at Ultima Online, arguably one of the best pvp games of all time. Now take a trip down memory lane to some of your old pvp fights on Rallos Zek. (if you are oldschool enough) What made the pvp so memorable and exciting, and sometimes terrifying in both of these games? ITEM LOOT

The potential to lose your gear, completely changes the atmosphere of the game world. It's a sobering concept that changes attitudes, and ultimately is essential in creating the pk/anti-pk environment that we all love.

You all want to relive classic EQ? Well start with making memories, as gay as that sounds. Some of my most unforgettable gaming moments were focused around item loot and guild wars, political turmoil, and backstabbing. Item loot creates the best stories, and great pvp stories attracts new blood to the server. People will hear a story and think about how they want to get in on the fun.

No where else will you be able to loot a Fungi Tunic off anything besides the Myconid Spore King.

No where else will someone get blacklisted and shunned by the community for opportunistic pking a member of their own group to steal a FBSS.

No where else will you see players hastily bagging their gear, hoping not to be blinded before they die.

No where else will you be able to band together with others to take down an overpowered, overtwinked character, and truly make them pay.

No where else will you have an economy that doesn't get too big and out of control and over inflated.

No where else will the pk/anti-pk dynamic exist, other than an item loot server.

No where else do reputations matter more.

No where else will the underdogs stand a chance.

Item loot is absolutely essential to FFA pvp, and will save this server, one shiny loot at a time.

Sorry for the book. Wipe the server clean, start fresh, and start with item loot or teams, or better yet...BOTH. Most of us that are posting suggestions want to see this server succeed, because it is potentially one of the best options for free MMO pvp out there. Some may not have any "red99 history" but we do have years and years of PVP history from all walks of MMORPGs. This isn't our first rodeo, and this isn't 1999. Most of us aren't noobs anymore. We know what works and what makes PVP great, and item loot works and TEAMS definitely work...even in EverQuest.

Get with the program and turn red99 into something worthy of remembrance.

Just the 2 coppers of an old pvper.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. However, the hardest objective in this whole endeavor is to convince the admin that wiping is a better option than leaving it alone.

Frankly, once that decision has been made, the followup will move right along. If the server is going to be wiped and everyone knows it, the people not interested in a fresh box will bounce, leaving only the people interested in a fresh box to decide what kind of ruleset will be employed. If the server won't be wiped, then the people who want a fresh start will exit stage left, and leave behind the people who want to maintain the status quo.

Personally? I want to see neckbeards squabbling over a DRT in crushbone the same way the orcs did in LOTR when Frodo was imprisoned. Because that's what I imagine neckbeards to look like, and I want to see that squabble in person (in pixel? voxel?).

Wipe the box, turn item loot on, throw in exp loss - lets see some tears. But at the same time, turn up the xp so all the action doesnt happen in the city zones

[Stasis01]

It has been proven that not everyone wants to make a massive zerg to compete against no life neck beards during prime time - no one wants to deal with it, hence the low pop.

What a stupid argument.