PSA: Reasonable probability that charm has been nerfed

[Nirgon]

If indeed charm is less effective, this is a fix

[-Catherin-]

spent most of the day in soloing in seb today. charm did not really feel any different, or if it was it was negligible. trying to lull on the other hand was atrocious. resists and crit resists all over the place.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by lecompte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean an actual MR buff, I mean an increase to their racial/class magic resistance.

The mobs in this sample are all from howling stones south and east (2 devourers and 1 sepulcher iirc).

Originally Posted by Nirgon

If indeed charm is less effective, this is a fix

Evidence? And please don't say 'Well back in the day I talked to this guy" like you usually do.

Look I believe charm is somewhat overpowered although not insanely so like it was before Kunark here. From a pure balance standpoint a 20% nerf to the average duration isn't unreasonable. But based on what I have read in Xornn's guide, charm here is already weaker than it was on live. I even found quotes of people on live who were charming in the planes before Kunark. Unfortunately it took Verant a while to really understand their game, and the first couple expansions are full of serious balance issues. That's just classic.

Originally Posted by Catherin

spent most of the day in soloing in seb today. charm did not really feel any different, or if it was it was negligible. trying to lull on the other hand was atrocious. resists and crit resists all over the place.

I'd be happy to be wrong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I just don't trust people's feelings when it comes to this is all.

[pasi]

My sample pool was small enough that I simply chalked things up to bad luck yesterday, but I noticed more resists (and charm breaks) than usual. Again, small sample size and potential for variance.

With that said, people need to also acknowledge that not everything in the patch is listed. One of the largest changes that seems to be getting no mention is that NPC mana appears to be functioning properly since the patch. That, or Theft of Thought is actually taking mana from NPCs. I soloed Ghost of Kindle for someone yesterday which normally requires me to chain mez her from 39% down, but she was actually oom from spamming nukes. This was a new feeling for P99 for me - NPCs before felt like their mana pool was in the 5 digits. I'll have to play around some more to see if this is a global thing.

[Hawala]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Last night in Mistmoore, on my 28 enc, I soloed the last half of the level using the same mobs I had used to previously solo the first part. Charm seemed no different (better if anything)

Same at level 35, better.

[koros]

Splorf,

This data makes me quite certain either 1. Charm wasn't nerfed, or 2. Your sample size is WAY too low, additionally it's likely some unknown instrumental variable was in effect here due to the strange distribution.

Population mean of 127, with a standard deviation of 121 and a standard error of estimation of 28. This doesn't add up. I think bootstrapping was definitely the wrong method to use.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Splorf,

This data makes me quite certain either 1. Charm wasn't nerfed, or 2. Your sample size is WAY too low, additionally it's likely some unknown instrumental variable was in effect here due to the strange distribution.

Population mean of 127, with a standard deviation of 121 and a standard error of estimation of 28. This doesn't add up. I think bootstrapping was definitely the wrong method to use.

I guess I'm a bit confused? I thought Central Limit Theorem implied that the standard error of the distribution of the mean should be 1/sqrt(n) that of the original distribution. 121 / sqrt(18) = 28.5 which is pretty close.

I can say that I know the distribution for charm for these types of mobs. You can think of it as being two uniform distrubtions: a "good" charm with say 10% chance, U(6-15 min) and a "normal" charm with say 90% chance, U(0-6 minutes). As your level gets higher or lower I'm not sure whether the midpoint changes or the chance of good/normal changes or both.

[koros]

You're right on central limit theorem, that's where I got the numbers I mentioned from.

Given the very high standard deviation, (only 68% of charms last 1 tick to 4 minutes? ) I don't think we can infer that we've reached an accurate mean.

Additionally, due to what seems to be negative kurtosis and positive skewness from the distribution, more samples are in order. A lot more.

[falkun]

If you have two data points that are different than the others (read: 2 intentional breaks vs. "natural" breaks) and you know which two data points those are, why can't you just highlight+delete them? You've got a relatively small sample size, shouldn't be that hard to find them and delete them from the set.

[newsmurf]

i spend more time at ng and other varius areas of seb than catherine and i can agree with all of you to some degree, the mr of mobs has been buffed.