[Opinion] EQ Next - Game Changers/Breakers

[August]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An instance typically means a repetitive linear dungeon with little to no exploration. Even though trains are annoying, I'd still rather have trains than instances. Your experience in an open world dungeon is normally somewhat different every time, unlike the usual instance. I think it's neat to run into other players that you may or may not know in open dungeons. The lack of exploration in instances seems to be the main reason that EQ type players dislike instances. Compare a dungeon like Lower Guk to Hellfire Citadel for example... I mean come on.

You're speaking to an instance type that I don't want. Once TBC rolled out the instances in WoW started becoming very linear.

WHy don't you compare Lower Guk to say, Blackrock Depths. Blackrock Depths was huge - way more spawns compared to lguk. It was difficult to do (at appropriate level) and the rewards varied.

The only difference is that mobs don't RESPAWN. I find it funny that you will complain about a 'competitive linear dungeon' and then sit in the same spot for 4 hours killing the 11 spawns your group can claim. While I agree the TBC and onward dungeons are far too linear for my taste, I think a lot of the old world WoW instancing was done properly and doesn't deserve a bad rap at all. If you added true respawns, they would outclass anything in classic EQ by a mile.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only difference is that mobs don't RESPAWN. I find it funny that you will complain about a 'competitive linear dungeon' and then sit in the same spot for 4 hours killing the 11 spawns your group can claim.

Again, I say that you're talking about the old take on old mechanics when that is definitely not exactly how things would be re-done in a modern MMO. There's no reason that a non-instanced dungeon needs to be so static; that's just how it was done ages ago when EQ was created.

[Rooj]

Blackrock Depths sucked. And have you ever gotten lost in a WoW instance? I haven't.

[Grahm]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blackrock Depths sucked. And have you ever gotten lost in a WoW instance? I haven't.

replying as I read, but if you have then you're an idiot. Only reason you got lost in Lower Guk is because you didn't have M to push to show you where to go...

[August]

Originally Posted by Grahm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

replying as I read, but if you have then you're an idiot. Only reason you got lost in Lower Guk is because you didn't have M to push to show you where to go...

Correct - it's not like the zone is so super complex. There is a path down and a path up. And if you know lguk well you could be dropped anywhere and know how to get to the exit. Bad lightning and unfamiliarity doesn't lend to a comparison w/ a WoW instance where you have a map and everything is bright as day.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

What I most love about instanced gameplay, is that it is like you and the pug you assembled in 10 minutes over the ww channels have an entire server to yourself. Then you get totally immersed and bam, 40 minutes later yer done and locked out till the next day, and able to settle in for whatever is on TV.

That is how you design a deep, involving game.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Cheeb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With the official announcement of EverQuest Next just a few weeks away the game has been coming up a lot at work lately. Since myself and a couple coworkers play on the P99 server I thought it would be fun to bring our most recent conversation to the boards.

We started talking about what would be some game changers (positive) and some game breakers (negative) in terms of features included in EverQuest Next. Changers would be categorized as something that isn't currently in the P99 era of EQ that you wouldn't mind seeing incorporated in EQN. Breakers would be features that you most associate with the P99 era of EQ that, if they weren't re-imagined in EQN, would keep you from purchasing the game.

Here is my list, I would love to see what you guys think!

Changers:
*Non instanced player housing
*Race/Faction based PvP system
*Robust and rewarding crafting system

Breakers:
*Instanced zones
*Class based characters (no one class fits all)
*Smaller server/community sizes

Sound off!

-Cheeb

Wurm Online is the closest thing IMHO to old school EQ in a sandbox. While Wurm Online doesn't have strong NPC scripts (lore/quests) and lots of factions and lots of story and complex dungeons, it does have players that do their own thing and join together and make their own stories. The mechanics are similar too. Literally, there're corpse runs. There's no in-game map. Gaining skills is slow. Monsters aggro and can train you. Terrain can be dangerous if you run on steep areas. Etc. The harshness is one of the major reasons I've liked it so much. It's massively better than anything I've played so far. Way better than EQ1, in terms of its impact on me. The only downside is that the skills are undeveloped and so the result is a lot of grinding. But then again making something like Wurm Online is a massive undertaking. Imperfection is just part of the business.

Immersion. When I made my ranger in surefall glades I remember wandering around in the dark. I remember danger. I remember everything being new. That feeling hit me with Wurm Online, and it was bigger. God, I sit here and type and I don't think it's getting through. Wurm Online is tough and a lot of people won't like it. Classic EQ was tough too, but people only played it because there wasn't much else available. But some players like it when things are tough. I'm one of them. But Wurm Online is freeform. Things just happen. Trees and creatures move around. Players change things. On the pvp servers, players have wars. Wurm Online is so much more than the punishment people associate with games like that. No pain, no gain, though.

If you haven't tried Wurm Online and any of what I said appeals to you, TRY IT! This is especially true if it's not the nostalgia that attracts you to classic EQ but the unforgiving gameplay mechanics. There's too much for me to say in this small post. I could go down a long list of s***, seriously. Let me just shorten and say beautiful moments happen in Wurm Online and none of them are preplanned. They emerge from the unplanned sandbox environment. For example, I played a ranger in EQ1 and play something similar in Wurm Online. When I made my first house I was unaware that there was a (rare) Willow tree a few steps away. Willow trees are good wood for bows. Man, I can't go over all the things that have hit me like a ton of bricks with that game. The immersion is like nothing else. When I am in that world, it's another world, not a game. It's special.

(btw, i made my house in august 2012. I last logged out in late april and that tree was STILL there. keep in mind that you can kill trees by chopping up the stump. wurm online is persistent open-world sandbox.)

The problem is you can't compare EQN to classic EQ. It will be NOTHING like classic EQ. It'll have more in common with the newest MMO's. That means virtually nothing in common with old school EQ. So when I see this thread, I just shake my head. EQ Next is not EQ, it's more like the newest Star Trek movies. They're pluggin into the sandbox stuff in minecraft and freerealms and second life and adding it their re-envisioned EQ.

EQN is EQN. Take it for what it's. Don't compare it to EQ because it's like apples and oranges.

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is you can't compare EQN to classic EQ. It will be NOTHING like classic EQ. It'll have more in common with the newest MMO's. That means virtually nothing in common with old school EQ. So when I see this thread, I just shake my head. EQ Next is not EQ, it's more like the newest Star Trek movies. They're pluggin into the sandbox stuff in minecraft and freerealms and second life and adding it their re-envisioned EQ.

EQN is EQN. Take it for what it's. Don't compare it to EQ because it's like apples and oranges.

Do you have info about EQN that we don't?

I cannot fathom how you can make such sweeping statements regarding EQN when we barely have any information about it.

[Tecmos Deception]

I'd like to see an MMO that puts the RP back into MMORPG.

I'm not talking about people writing up elaborate backstories to their characters or speaking in ye olde english or whatnot. No no. I'm talking about removing the focus on esport PvP and PvE, about taking the some of the harsh reality aspects from PNP RPGs and from survival horror games and weaving them into an MMO.

On p99 you park your dwarf cleric and your ogre shaman and your iksar monk in tube room for 3 weeks at a time, logging in one at a time as needed to get the pixels from king. Your characters are living in a wet, slimy, damp, dark 10x10 room with a goo waterfall in it, right around the corner from their enemies. There's no RP there!

I want to see characters who are soft-capped on playtime because the characters need rest, because the characters don't get much rest when they are sleeping on slimy stone floors in the bottom of a dungeon with their enemies patrolling just feet away. I want characters to stay ingame when offline, obeying scripts from the player, etc. I want druids to plant trees that grow into a forest, gear to decay (but that not be a OMG HORRIBLE thing because it is designed to decay and be repaired and replaced and that's no big thing), weight (and volume, omg) limits to exist and be meaningful, PvP actions to have reprecussions with NPCs and PCs alike, etc.


Might be asking for a bit much for this decade, but god knows no MMO is going to convince me to spend a dime on it until a lot of these sorts of things are put into one.

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd like to see an MMO that puts the RP back into MMORPG.

I'm not talking about people writing up elaborate backstories to their characters or speaking in ye olde english or whatnot. No no. I'm talking about removing the focus on esport PvP and PvE, about taking the some of the harsh reality aspects from PNP RPGs and from survival horror games and weaving them into an MMO.

On p99 you park your dwarf cleric and your ogre shaman and your iksar monk in tube room for 3 weeks at a time, logging in one at a time as needed to get the pixels from king. Your characters are living in a wet, slimy, damp, dark 10x10 room with a goo waterfall in it, right around the corner from their enemies. There's no RP there!

I want to see characters who are soft-capped on playtime because the characters need rest, because the characters don't get much rest when they are sleeping on slimy stone floors in the bottom of a dungeon with their enemies patrolling just feet away. I want characters to stay ingame when offline, obeying scripts from the player, etc. I want druids to plant trees that grow into a forest, gear to decay (but that not be a OMG HORRIBLE thing because it is designed to decay and be repaired and replaced and that's no big thing), weight (and volume, omg) limits to exist and be meaningful, PvP actions to have reprecussions with NPCs and PCs alike, etc.


Might be asking for a bit much for this decade, but god knows no MMO is going to convince me to spend a dime on it until a lot of these sorts of things are put into one.

Isn't this pretty close to what they wanted Vanguard SoH to be? We all know how that worked out. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree that instances are terrible for communities, I stuck with Everquest for about 5 years after it's release, I stopped enjoying it and pretty much just went with the flow for a couple of years once LDoN released. After LDoN, GoD and PoTime becoming instanced EQ just lost everything that felt magical about it.