Anyone tried EQLive with its 50 expansions?

[Spacebar]

One decent thing about live is just getting on and exploring some of the zones. Many of the zones are shit, but there are still some cool ones to check out. You can also get on and familiariaze yourself with Velious zones before it comes out. Effing Siren's Grotto is confusing as shit to me, but I've been doing my monk's epic 1.5 for the hell of it and have been going to all kinds of zones while doing it.

[Thaeryn]

Yeah I hopped back onto EQ Live just this past week. After finding P99 I wanted to see if Live would be better since I still have some toons there. It has changed so much. Gear is ridiculous. Leveling is super fast with the new hot zones and mercs. The old world I loved so much is deserted. These are all the reasons I left in the first place.

I've been on WoW and EQ2 quite a bit. EQ2 is pretty, but the mobs are handed to you on a silver platter, and everything feels so linear. The world feels a millions times smaller than Classic EQ and there really are no interesting battles that I've seen so far. Granted I only played to mid 40's... but I remember seeing a whole lot more by mid 40's in classic.

I realize the things I loved most about EQ Classic was that you could discover little out-of-the-way NPCs to farm, dungeon crawls felt a lot more intense, and it feels like I had a lot more options to lvl up. The scarcity of good loot is definitely better for the game, IMO. In EQ2 you get amazing gear from quests that you can solo, but I much prefer EQ Classic's system. I love seeing the auctions in EC. I love saving my plat to buy my next piece of gear. I loved waiting for spells, too! I don't want new spells every level. Having to wait made it much more rewarding.

It may just be that since EQ 2000-2002 was my first MMO, that it would be my favorite, but I think even if I were starting for the first time, I would enjoy EQ Classic much more.

[AdamM01]

Originally Posted by Thaeryn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It may just be that since EQ 2000-2002 was my first MMO, that it would be my favorite, but I think even if I were starting for the first time, I would enjoy EQ Classic much more.

I agree, but that is coming from a stance of playing EQ first and I loved it. I think that the majority of people nowadays just want to play end game content. Most don't really care about getting to know their community or grouping, they just want max level and good gear to brag about. I think that most WoW, Rift, or other new MMO players would hate classic EQ if they played it now, only getting 1-2 levels after playing for a few hours.

That however, is what I loved about it. I had to group and get to know my fellow players to advance in the game. I personally think that any game is more fun with others to play with, I don't buy most of my games to play the single player, I like interaction with others.

I did try out EQ live back in December, I actually renewed my membership with them. I quit back in 2003 about 4 months after PoP was released, and then a brief 2 month stint when LDoN was released because I wanted to see what the instanced dungeons were like. I didn't like it, I enjoyed the realistic competition for mobs and camps. As for EQ live now, it is horrible, the community is virtually gone unless you are 90-100, which I am nowhere near. I was able to create a new Magician character and go 1-40 in about 2 days which is insane (playing only a few hours a day). Although I enjoyed going through old zones and reliving the best parts of EQ, it was way to easy and boring. I'm so happy I found project 1999, I have been playing for a couple days now and have a whopping level 4 mage and level 3 bard. Absolutely loving it.

[Vaildez]

The worst part of live is nobody groups and everyone is running around with a posse of multiple of their own characters... It's pretty much not the same game at all.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Vaildez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The worst part of live is nobody groups and everyone is running around with a posse of multiple of their own characters... It's pretty much not the same game at all.

This, and if boxing was allowed here you'd see people leave in droves.

No idea if the EpicEmu server is still running but I couldn't bear seeing it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[t0lkien]

I jumped in just this week, and after the initial "hey, this is cool to be back" I spent most of my time chatting in General to catch up. Mercenaries, greatly increased experience gains (can max a character to level 100 in 4 days if you're keen), player quests that offer amazing gear reward and XP, instant travel everywhere via new veteran items, just totally outlandish item mods and augments and ... it was all too much. Everyone solos or molos and most of the game is an empty wasteland. EQ was always about difficulty, rewards that had to be really earned, and grouping (and guilds) i.e. the game forced you into community in a good way. The new EQ has utterly lost all that.

I spent the next few hours in chat reminiscing with some really old school EQ players about the pre-Luclin days of EQ. Then I realized, I really should be playing p1999. So here I am. And by the way, the Velious style UI is just awesomely minimalist and elegant compared to all the bloated nonsense that went on after it. I always missed it, and now I don't have to.

[TarukShmaruk]

^

It's just the result of massive mudflation. They have crammed so many features into a 15 year old engine that just wasn't designed to support it.

It's the same in WoW, honestly, which is on its 4th expansion pack and already feeling silly.

One thing EQ did right, I think, was keep the expansions relatively incremental - you didn't have massive gear resets every xpac, and ~tons~ of guilds were using new expansion power boosts to go raid older content they couldn't handle before. I know we used Omens of War & level 70 to get RZTW down and finally get into the EP.

And that was pretty fun. All raid content stayed relevant for a long time.

But it's time for an EQ3 - an EQ3 that captures the essence of EQ1 in a new engine and improves on it. Nostalgia is a very powerful sales driver - and IMO if they're smart they'll even try to recapture the cartoonish graphics from EQ1 rather than pursue the horrid plastic look they have in modern EQ and EQ2.

I mean how stoked would you be if you hopped into EQ3 and went to make an ogre/troll/dwarf/gnome/whatever and not only could you easily identify the EQ1 influence on the models, but they even had facial options that were similar to ones from EQ1?

[t0lkien]

I've done a bit of reading and listening about EverQuest Next and... it's going to be another cup of fail I think. The very big problem is that the people making these games no longer understand what made them great in the first place. They are designing them by committee via marketing, and it's a complete cluster of second guessing and ego driven mediocrity in the end. I say this as someone in the industry who has watched it all happen up close many times - so many times I just bail at the first smell of it now. People disdained Brad McQuaid for his at times infuriating and arrogant "vision", but he had one. And it shows.

EQ got it right in all the big ways (as did UO I hear, though I never played it). WoW, while starting off great, has destroyed the entire genre for a while. WoW did some very good things, but it's just visually, narratively, mechanically, and thematically a vile and vomitous mass now. I hesitate to say it's a game for people with no taste, a bloated sense of entitlement, and no experience of much else besides cheeseburgers, straight to DVD action movies, and miles and miles of inch deep, because that's probably not true. It just feels like it's true.

What they need to do is remake the original EQ with modern tech and some UI/functionality improvements, some mechanical improvements, and maybe some new extensions on old areas, but keep the feel the same. That is a game a large niche of dedicated players would upgrade their systems just to play. SoE have already talked themselves out of that idea with EQ Next, as was inevitable because they really don't understand it, and never did IMO. I believe it's individuals who make these things great, and EQ was lost as soon as Verant sold to Sony, and then Brad inevitably quit later on.

[TarukShmaruk]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've done a bit of reading and listening about EverQuest Next and... it's going to be another cup of fail I think. The very big problem is that the people making these games no longer understand what made them great in the first place. They are designing them by committee via marketing, and it's a complete cluster of second guessing and ego driven mediocrity in the end.

I say this as someone in the industry who has watched it all happen many times. EQ got it right in all the big wasy (as did UO I hear, though I never played it). WoW, while starting off great, has just destroyed the entire genre for a while. WoW did some very good things, but it's just visually, narratively, mechanically, and thematically a vile and vomitous mass now. I hesitate to say it's a game for people with no taste or experience of much else, but that's probably not true. It just feels like it's true.

WoW is still AAA in a lot of ways - especially production values. It's just that the 'hold your hand theme park' has grown quite stale.

It's funny how things people want - including myself - ultimately end up sucking the life out of the game. Flying mounts mean everyone is just soaring through the sky. Raid Finder means I log in, do some ridiculously easy pug raid bosses, get bored and quit.

But, as to the rest of your post, I think SOE has proven it can still succeed with PS2.

You're right that EQ3 could just end up being a massive fail, and Smed/Brad egos play a huge factor. Yes, they learned a big lesson when they got their asses kicked by WoW, but that doesn't mean they won't find some other dumb game mechanic to staunchly say "you're in our world now" about

[RevengeofGio]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've done a bit of reading and listening about EverQuest Next and... it's going to be another cup of fail I think. The very big problem is that the people making these games no longer understand what made them great in the first place. They are designing them by committee via marketing, and it's a complete cluster of second guessing and ego driven mediocrity in the end. I say this as someone in the industry who has watched it all happen up close many times - so many times I just bail at the first smell of it now. People disdained Brad McQuaid for his at times infuriating and arrogant "vision", but he had one. And it shows.

EQ got it right in all the big ways (as did UO I hear, though I never played it). WoW, while starting off great, has just destroyed the entire genre for a while. WoW did some very good things, but it's just visually, narratively, mechanically, and thematically a vile and vomitous mass now. I hesitate to say it's a game for people with no taste or experience of much else besides cheeseburgers and straight to DVD action movies, but that's probably not true. It just feels like it's true.

WoW pre BC was an amazingly fun experience. I hope in my heart of hearts that EQ Next does a great job.