Is Faith In God Reasonable? Faith is Foolish Debate

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Eliseus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm more curious as to why the assumption God doesn't exist because science was able to prove things like the "Big Bang." Just because science has proved something does that mean God didn't create it or doesn't still make it miraculous? I also think people under the assumption that acts of randomness for such perfect things like the human body is absurd. I mean look at the thriving striving creation that has the ability to create more life. People really assume that this was random? That somehow all the stars aligned in the universe at precisely the perfect moment to somehow allow man and woman to be made, not only that but this random act also created an even more random act of allowing man/woman to reproduce with each other?

Now of course this doesn't necessarily say that the "God" that is believed in exists, and like he mentions may be "dead", but, either God does exist or a higher power definitely exists in some for somewhere that created what we know.

I mean, if you read the news, since 4years ago when NASA launched Kepler, they have found 2,700 possible planets orbiting stars other than our Sun, and 100 of those have been confirmed Earth like planets. This in itself should be proof at the possibility of a more powerful race maybe then ours, Gods maybe? Now, if you think that we never traveled to the moon or into space along with God not existing, I don't think there is any hope for you people at all lol.

I personally believe in God and Jesus Christ, but even without them, I would believe in a higher power or more advanced race somewhere that is the reason we are on this Earth.

it wasn't random. apes fucked that evolved into humans who continued to keep on fucking.

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it wasn't random. apes fucked that evolved into humans who continued to keep on fucking.

Did you just try saying it wasn't random by throwing in another scenario of randomness? Even if evolution really existed (IDK if it does or not, but it being a "theory" just like the big bang, there is not proof, I'll define theory for you if you would like) then what did the apes come from? The randomness I pointed out in my post.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Eliseus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you just try saying it wasn't random by throwing in another scenario of randomness? Even if evolution really existed (IDK if it does or not, but it being a "theory" just like the big bang, there is not proof, I'll define theory for you if you would like) then what did the apes come from? The randomness I pointed out in my post.

nope, your parents fucked, sex cells merged, and out you came from your mother's body. physical things that are provable. that's not random, but a measurable chain of events.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nope, your parents fucked, sex cells merged, and out you came from your mother's body. physical things that are provable. that's not random, but a measurable chain of events.

physical things aren't provable.

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nope, your parents fucked, sex cells merged, and out you came from your mother's body. physical things that are provable. that's not random, but a measurable chain of events.

Ok, I laughed hard when reading this. Seriously, thank you for this lol.

[Ephirith]

It's everyone's favorite pastime-- arguing about religion on the internet! en garde

[QUOTE=Eliseus;964134] People really assume that this was random? That somehow all the stars aligned in the universe at precisely the perfect moment to somehow allow man and woman to be made, not only that but this random act also created an even more random act of allowing man/woman to reproduce with each other?

Now of course this doesn't necessarily say that the "God" that is believed in exists, and like he mentions may be "dead", but, either God does exist or a higher power definitely exists in some for somewhere that created what we know./QUOTE]

How is the notion of biological complexity needing to be 'created' any less absurd than billions of years of stellar and biochemical evolution?

If you believe we had to have been created, then who created the creator? If you say he always existed, or created himself, then why not save a step and apply the same freewheeling principles to primordial humanity?

Originally Posted by Eliseus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of peoples assumption has a lot to do with Evolution which is surprisingly funny, because the time it would take for us to evolve cant really be explained anyways since it would take so long for something like that to happen no one would ever be around to see it. I mean hell, like in our other thread, people already have hard enough time validating/not validation the bible which is only a few thousand years ago. Also, science shows that the structure of the bones in birds are almost similar to humans, does that mean we came from birds? Now, adaption is entirely possible, but the assumption that I will one day grow wings and fly away because its required for my race to survive is stupid.

I'm sorry to insult you but you are woefully uneducated... read a biology book. Science doesn't make very strong claims on the origin of the universe nor does it purport to factually explain the origin of life itself. For these questions it has theories supported by whatever empirical evidence can be gathered.

The principles of biological evolution and their role in the formation of humanity, however, are objective fact. We are similar to birds because we share a common ancestor. We didn't evolve from monkeys, but we do share a common ancestor with monkeys. These things are not debatable. If you refuse to accept them at this point, you're just opting for ignorance.

There's one important consideration: It's not just that you believe in God and Christ, you also believe in God and Christ's 'teachings'. You live your life a certain way based on faith, and you expect others to do the same. If you want me to walk into church on sundays and worship a God, then the burden of evidence is on you to prove to me that God exists. Creationism is a joke. I don't find faith compelling. You have no compelling evidence.

And scientists aren't asking you to live your life a certain way, so they don't need to prove anything. Their claims are by necessity grounded in fact. If something has poor support, it isn't accepted. If you can find substantial evidence for your claims, my mind is open! Until then, you can keep your backwards fucking superstition out of my schools and politics kkthx.

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." -Carl Sagan

[Eliseus]

[QUOTE=Ephirith;964174]It's everyone's favorite pastime-- arguing about religion on the internet! en garde

Originally Posted by Eliseus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People really assume that this was random? That somehow all the stars aligned in the universe at precisely the perfect moment to somehow allow man and woman to be made, not only that but this random act also created an even more random act of allowing man/woman to reproduce with each other?

Now of course this doesn't necessarily say that the "God" that is believed in exists, and like he mentions may be "dead", but, either God does exist or a higher power definitely exists in some for somewhere that created what we know./QUOTE]

How is the notion of biological complexity needing to be 'created' any less absurd than billions of years of stellar and biochemical evolution?

If you believe we had to have been created, then who created the creator? If you say he always existed, or created himself, then why not save a step and apply the same freewheeling principles to primordial humanity?



I'm sorry to insult you but you are woefully uneducated... read a biology book. Science doesn't make very strong claims on the origin of the universe nor does it purport to factually explain the origin of life itself. For these questions it has theories supported by whatever empirical evidence can be gathered.

The principles of biological evolution and their role in the formation of humanity, however, are objective fact. We are similar to birds because we share a common ancestor. We didn't evolve from monkeys, but we do share a common ancestor with monkeys. These things are not debatable. If you refuse to accept them at this point, you're just opting for ignorance.

There's one important consideration: It's not just that you believe in God and Christ, you also believe in God and Christ's 'teachings'. You live your life a certain way based on faith, and you expect others to do the same. If you want me to walk into church on sundays and worship a God, then the burden of evidence is on you to prove to me that God exists. Creationism is a joke. I don't find faith compelling. You have no compelling evidence.

And scientists aren't asking you to live your life a certain way, so they don't need to prove anything. Their claims are by necessity grounded in fact. If something has poor support, it isn't accepted. If you can find substantial evidence for your claims, my mind is open! Until then, you can keep your backwards fucking superstition out of my schools and politics kkthx.

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." -Carl Sagan

I don't even know where to start to pick this thread apart. You also want the burden of evidence, yet you agree with posts like the OPs, which would actually result in YOU to prove a burden of evidence. Don't try to twist things around that we would have to prove anything to you. I don't see a thread telling you to come to church or what to and not to believe in. Also, considering the U.S. was founded under god, you can take your backwards fucking superstition and get the fuck out of my country or shut the fuck up and let people believe in and be happy with whatever God they want.

Your biology comment is pretty laughable since it talks about "theories" which you don't seem to grasp. Maybe if you come into this thread and not throw around "fuck you" types of arguments people would be more willing to agree with your wall of text. When you try to make a point, it helps if you don't show how unintelligent you really are.

[Hasbinbad]

[QUOTE=Eliseus;964191]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, considering the U.S. was founded under god, you can take your backwards fucking superstition and get the fuck out of my country or shut the fuck up and let people believe in and be happy with whatever God they want.

Thread success.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Eliseus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, considering the U.S. was founded under god, you can take your backwards fucking superstition and get the fuck out of my country or shut the fuck up and let people believe in and be happy with whatever God they want.

Yea we've made quite a few mistakes as a nation but I like to think we're improving. I mean it wasn't just God, we were founded under slavery too. One pernicious institution down, one to go.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea we've made quite a few mistakes as a nation but I like to think we're improving. I mean it wasn't just God, we were founded under slavery too. One pernicious institution down, one to go.

don't forget genocide, labor camps, indentured servitude, racism other than slavery and genocide, isolationism, and last but certainly not least capitalism .. just to name a few.