Top WoW Raiding Guild Quits

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess my point was eq was a greater time sink. Yes you could spend 10 hours in aq40, but at what point are you just banging your head against the wall? The content was not designed to take that long. I've spent 15+ hours in VT in one session. No we wernt raping the zone...but the raid was meant to take foooooorrrrrreeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrrr. Ssra was my fav zone of cats on the moon.

We pushed content in tbc, but other then that i was able to look up strats for later content.

It wasn't designed to do it all in one sitting (could take your time and come back to finish it another day), I think that is what you're getting at.

MC, BWL, AQ40 and Naxx would all take quite a long time clearing in one sitting unless your guild had them on easy mode farm status (not sure many guilds got AQ40 to that status and even less for Naxx). Even then there was trouble mob/s that could wipe your shit in bwl, aq40 and naxx if you had slackers.

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It wasn't designed to do it all in one sitting (could take your time and come back to finish it another day), I think that is what you're getting at.

VT wasn't instanced, if you took a break you'd come back and see that someone had done the rest of the work for you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VT wasn't instanced, if you took a break you'd come back and see that someone had done the rest of the work for you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what I was getting at.

If you had to finish the WoW raids all in one sitting (at least the classic ones) you would be spending quite a great deal of time there (pre-easymode farm status).

[Kagatob]

And that AHR neck, most mudflation resistant piece of equipment in gaming history.
Replacement in PoP? Nope, not even PoTime.
LoY? Hell nope.
GoD? Not until Uqua for some classes, Qvic for the rest.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VT wasn't instanced, if you took a break you'd come back and see that someone had done the rest of the work for you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

contested content. huh. funny stuff. why next thing you are going to start saying there should be persistent game worlds where if you snooze you lose.

Barring some strange system of lockouts, or some even harder to implement guild roster = raid force rule, which I have no concrete ideas how either could be done, p99 is ending up exactly the way this game can only end up. Top heavy, zerged, farmed, spawn camped.

The real-time contested (as opposed to puzzle-mobs instanced time sinks) time sink aspect (eg, poopsocking) that used to limit *many* eq servers (just only so many batphonable players to go around) just can't happen with a 12 year old game, simply because the project cannot expect that vast a player base. There simply is not enough players, and it has little to do with beefs about what the lvl 60's are doing. Not from my perspective anyway. It's an old game. And given a single server project, how to solve the high end problem? Game update 666:

- all end game gear rolls a save vs rust monster once a week. you lose, it poofs, get back to work. Rust monster got hungry, what ya gonna do? stop crying. you knew the risks. or maybe you didn't. But its p666; the devil's server.

- zone lockouts. Very classic! I'm solving problems here, fuck yer classic BS. Could be done similar to earlier eq2. Pick your target, and hold the zone, because if you zone your raid force out, your guild is locked for 48 hours.

- But wait a second! We are zergish, we are like the Mormons of gaming, we all have 37 characters! We have 8 raid forces! No you don't. Accounts with active lvl 60's can easily be linked to a guild, and any 50+ char on such account is part of that guild's nominal raid force. And you only can field one raid force at a time, even if you change members in and out. Wait, dey tuk yer alts?

It's p666. deal.

or, we could just continue as is, and just wait for the usual every-few years usually internal psycho-drama that always ends up breaking up a zerg guild.

Take yers time. But there is nothing that is going to change the approximate # of people that want to play this game "beneath" the top end gang. As to the top end gang, I just do not buy into the notion they would or could ever leave, and even if they did, a fresh crop of die hards will find the opportunity too irresistable.

Truth. I'd hit it.

oh: since raid force leaving zone = lockout, a wipe = a lockout. deal. chew slower.

[Kagatob]

^ every single one of those ideas are terrible. You'd be more successful arguing with the people on this server that they should use instances which in itself is laughable. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[baub]

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess my point was eq was a greater time sink. Yes you could spend 10 hours in aq40, but at what point are you just banging your head against the wall? The content was not designed to take that long. I've spent 15+ hours in VT in one session. No we wernt raping the zone...but the raid was meant to take foooooorrrrrreeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrrr. Ssra was my fav zone of cats on the moon.

We pushed content in tbc, but other then that i was able to look up strats for later content.

Well you would have to be a fool to argue that EQ wasn't a greater time sink [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Noselacri]

its not P99s fault

I would argue that it is P99's fault, and that their inability to deal with this problem is the reason the server has 700ish players at peak instead of 3000. So many people have left because they realized the ceiling is artificially low due to the fact that there's no endgame unless you join one or two particular guilds -- very exclusive guilds that demand unreasonable things of their players because that's how you "win" at Everquest.

The problem is that P99 tries to emulate everything about Everquest except one thing: there's only one server. Instead of 20+ servers on which the unhealthily obsessed hardcores can spread out, there's just one server, and their playstyle completely destroys the endgame for everyone else. Everquest doesn't have enough content for more than like one and a half raid guilds, but you could always move to a different server where the endgame hadn't yet been completely monopolized, or where there was room for you in the top guild.

This "feature" is completely missing in P99, and the result has been disastrous. It's the #1 problem of this server, the #1 reason for people quitting, and the cause of endless amounts of grief and conflict. GMs have quit over the constant abuse that results from this, entire guilds have collapsed, and I'd estimate that about 75% of the players who have reached the higher levels on P99 have consequently quit the server after discovering that the best they could hope for was to farm Sebilis and level alts.

Failure to compensate for this is the reason P99 has only ever been merely good instead of groundbreaking and amazing. It's such a strait-jacket on the server, and look at the result: people are starving for an alternative to the point of giving a criminally bad server like The Sleeper the chance that it never deserved. Every time a new server pops up, hundreds of people flee P99 with hopes of the new thing being a cure to exactly one problem: the clogged and monopolized endgame. It's only because no alternative of reasonable quality has ever presented itself that P99 still sees numbers in the high hundreds.

[citizen1080]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would argue that it is P99's fault, and that their inability to deal with this problem is the reason the server has 700ish players at peak instead of 3000. So many people have left because they realized the ceiling is artificially low due to the fact that there's no endgame unless you join one or two particular guilds -- very exclusive guilds that demand unreasonable things of their players because that's how you "win" at Everquest.

The problem is that P99 tries to emulate everything about Everquest except one thing: there's only one server. Instead of 20+ servers on which the unhealthily obsessed hardcores can spread out, there's just one server, and their playstyle completely destroys the endgame for everyone else. Everquest doesn't have enough content for more than like one and a half raid guilds, but you could always move to a different server where the endgame hadn't yet been completely monopolized, or where there was room for you in the top guild.

This "feature" is completely missing in P99, and the result has been disastrous. It's the #1 problem of this server, the #1 reason for people quitting, and the cause of endless amounts of grief and conflict. GMs have quit over the constant abuse that results from this, entire guilds have collapsed, and I'd estimate that about 75% of the players who have reached the higher levels on P99 have consequently quit the server after discovering that the best they could hope for was to farm Sebilis and level alts.

Failure to compensate for this is the reason P99 has only ever been merely good instead of groundbreaking and amazing. It's such a strait-jacket on the server, and look at the result: people are starving for an alternative to the point of giving a criminally bad server like The Sleeper the chance that it never deserved. Every time a new server pops up, hundreds of people flee P99 with hopes of the new thing being a cure to exactly one problem: the clogged and monopolized endgame. It's only because no alternative of reasonable quality has ever presented itself that P99 still sees numbers in the high hundreds.

Well said sir

[Nune]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would argue that it is P99's fault, and that their inability to deal with this problem is the reason the server has 700ish players at peak instead of 3000. So many people have left because they realized the ceiling is artificially low due to the fact that there's no endgame unless you join one or two particular guilds -- very exclusive guilds that demand unreasonable things of their players because that's how you "win" at Everquest.

The problem is that P99 tries to emulate everything about Everquest except one thing: there's only one server. Instead of 20+ servers on which the unhealthily obsessed hardcores can spread out, there's just one server, and their playstyle completely destroys the endgame for everyone else. Everquest doesn't have enough content for more than like one and a half raid guilds, but you could always move to a different server where the endgame hadn't yet been completely monopolized, or where there was room for you in the top guild.

This "feature" is completely missing in P99, and the result has been disastrous. It's the #1 problem of this server, the #1 reason for people quitting, and the cause of endless amounts of grief and conflict. GMs have quit over the constant abuse that results from this, entire guilds have collapsed, and I'd estimate that about 75% of the players who have reached the higher levels on P99 have consequently quit the server after discovering that the best they could hope for was to farm Sebilis and level alts.

Failure to compensate for this is the reason P99 has only ever been merely good instead of groundbreaking and amazing. It's such a strait-jacket on the server, and look at the result: people are starving for an alternative to the point of giving a criminally bad server like The Sleeper the chance that it never deserved. Every time a new server pops up, hundreds of people flee P99 with hopes of the new thing being a cure to exactly one problem: the clogged and monopolized endgame. It's only because no alternative of reasonable quality has ever presented itself that P99 still sees numbers in the high hundreds.

Think there's a bit more going on in the shadows than you've given credit too, but this was very well put.

I've always attributed the massive poopsocking to the fact that for a long time now certain guild(s) has been making some cash from this game. Probably the only way to immerse a nerd further into his lore of choosing is to pay him to do it.

You must also realize not everyone is as versed on the EQEmu culture as some. I've been around since the early days, I never kept the same name twice (minus Maybach on X99 servers -> Sleeper) because it's much easier to operate under the radar here. You won't have people coming after you/targeting you. How many years has TZT had "Where our fun comes from ruining yours" as its site slogan? And how many years has it's fucking retard fledglings gone server to server doing just that. There's just this deluded, evil-orgasmic feeling some people get knowing they're ruining something for you. As time progressed on the 99's, it started to become a practiced coming-of-age thing.

The server turned TMO into what it is. NEVER has an upper echelon guild gotten to the top and said "Hey, let's let other people have some of our raids" yet they are viewed like they're the only guild in MMO history with this mentality (shitty "hey look we're good guys" Trak handouts are far from what I'm getting at). I remember scrub guilds training their Planar raids years ago, just because they couldn't raid for their own reasons. They still harbor scumbags, cheaters, confirmed exploiters and RMT'rs, I'm not giving them a shred of credit for their accomplishments - they kinda negated that from themselves long ago.

As truthful as your post may be, this is just a server that hosts pixels. What happens further beyond that was completely in the hands of the people who connected to said server, and now we have this.