First Aggro + 15

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It still promotes camping. Which is what were trying to get away from.

I am looking at the best ways to mitigate something that will likely always be present, while giving a level playing field to all time zones, and encouraging competition.

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This, camping will never stop untill all parties agree to stop. All these rules posts popping up are just variations of different rules, nothing is really adressing the problem at hand, which is...camping.

Only the raiders themselves can solve this problem, no rule, aside from rotation, will. And even some of the rotation suggestions promote some sort of camping for the 2ndary guilds.

All parties will never agree to give up a behavior that enhances their chances of getting loot under the rules in effect. So, can we please end that line of argument?

As for a rotation, there are two serious problems that make a rotation a non-starter.

1. Unless it is GM enforced, a raid force that doesn't like it can simply ignore it, and GMs have said they WILL NOT manage a rotation for us. Any rotation would have to be player created, player agreed upon, and player enforced... which brings me to point #2.

2. There will always be enough players on the server that prefer competition to a rotation to band together and race for raid targets. Without GM enforcement of the rotation those people who want to compete for spawns will gather together and do so, not caring at all which group the rotation says is supposed to get the mob.

Until someone can convince me that one or both of those statements is false, I will consider ideas of a rotation to be non-starters. If anyone has a rebuttal to this line of argument, can we move that discussion on the viability and nature of any potential rotation system to its own thread?

[Fahn]

First off just want to say that I was in no way advocating either solution in my previous post. Was just saying.

In essence the only way to eliminate camping is a rotation agreement of sorts.

And again before I continue want to say I am not advocating any solution, just pointing out things I see.

You said that guilds don't get anything for joining in a rotation. And the truth is they do. 1. They get more free time, unless they want to sit around waiting for a wipe. 2. As long as they are able to kill a target, they are almost guaranteed a certain amount of loot.

As for policing it, Reputation is big in classic EQ and if a majority agree to something the few who don't will suffer the consequences. It's one thing for a guild on guild fight when both have a claim to something. It's quite another to breech an agreement held by the servers guilds.

But I do agree, getting the powers of the server to agree to something would be a major obstacle. It would take the guild leaders of each raid ready guild coming to an agreement.

[Leokaiser]

Under this system, if you camp a spawn, you will still indeed have the advantage, but it won't be a foregone conclusion as it is right now. If two raids are camping, it won't matter which showed up first and spent the most time there (afk!), first try will go to the raid that acts quickest. Theoretically, one raid that camped but isn't on the ball could lose out to a raid which has only just shown up but is ready to go.

Really, nothing short of a rotation will prevent camping the mob before it is going to spawn, but at least this way the camp need only commence before the variance window opens, not 4 days before.

[Fahn]

Will yall stop picking on my "Gimme" sentences :/ they are exactly as they are supposed to be. Broad, positive and without merit.

And you are right asta. Any proposed system has a snowballs chance to actually be adopted.

[Taluvill]

As awesome as this idea sounded in the other forum, it just changes camping for 4 days into camping for 12 hours, and instead of safe spots its spawn points and you hope you get first aggro.

No ill will meant, but this shit ain't gonna work boss.

Edit: and I read the whole thread. Rotation will NOT work unless its gm enforced, and Suicide kings is pretty nifty for sure.

[girth]

Even if all it did was to change camping so its not done 3 days ahead of time and force people camping at a spawn point to not be afk(nobody will AFK at boss spawn points), then I would consider this a success.

Nobody would camp a spawn for days if you don't have to be the FIRST raid force in the zone. If its just a race to agro the mob, people will show up when they need to.

That is 50000000000000000000000000000000000x better.

[Combo]

Just instance the damn things, make everything NODROP, and get it over with.

It's 100% unclassic, but it's what every damn moron that makes another thread about raid rules secretly wants.

[girth]

No we don't. We play this 10 year old game because the raiding of non-instanced bosses THAT YOU MUST COMPETE OVER is about the most fun you can have in the endgame of a PvE game.

Instanced zones are not fun. I remember my whole guild bitching and moaning every time we had to do Plane of Time. If it wasn't for the mass quantities of amazing loot, I'd say that's one of my least favorite zones in that expansion. The only reason it was bearable IMO at the time was the sheer amount of raid bosses/loot.

No matter what you say, if you play a PvE game for the high-end, its not about the boss you're killing, its about competing with the next person. If you only have 1 boss between multiple guilds, the competition is who gets the boss. If each guild has their own instanced boss, the competition is who can kill their boss first.

The only difference is the losers get their mob/loot too in instanced zones. That makes winning less fun.

[bullet]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No we don't. We play this 10 year old game because the raiding of non-instanced bosses THAT YOU MUST COMPETE OVER is about the most fun you can have in the endgame of a PvE game.

Instanced zones are not fun.

No matter what you say, if you play a PvE game for the high-end, its not about the boss you're killing, its about competing with the next person.

Yes we can quite clearly see that Everquest raiding is 'fun'

[girth]

I grow tired of people saying that this system would not change anything. If you take away the 'first 15 in a zone' rule, it won't matter how long a raid has been camping, 3-4 days it doesn't matter, some other raid can show up an hour before a boss' window opens and agro it first.

How is that not a world of difference?

I mean shit guys, the whole reason camping sucks is cause people want to play the damned game, not tab out and do other stuff. Couple hours-half a day(or whatever a lessened variance would be) is fine, 3 days is not. If you cannot see the difference, then you shouldn't even be in the discussion.