What classes are over populated

[Envious]

Classes that are over populated: Necro / shm / monk

Classes that there are enough of: Warrior / SK / Pally

Classes that you can get instant groups: Cleric / Enchanter

Classes nobody even wants: Druid / ranger

[SupaflyIRL]

Originally Posted by baub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the most important endgame DPS in kunark :X

A very small fraction of the server is going to enter VP and an even smaller fraction of people who post "what class should I play" threads are going to enter there. The majority of wizards will spend their time regretting making a wizard.

[Drem]

i'm a bard and finding a group is basically impossible. everybody in most zones are in like a group of four and don't want more or they're a soloing shm/dru/nec and don't even respond. i have to resort to sketchy AE kiting solo most of the time

[Maben]

Originally Posted by Drem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm a bard and finding a group is basically impossible. everybody in most zones are in like a group of four and don't want more or they're a soloing shm/dru/nec and don't even respond. i have to resort to sketchy AE kiting solo most of the time

You left out the part about how that's 10+ times more effective than grouping as far as exp goes.

Edit: Also, I get lots of group invites to dungeons, even with LFG off. Be good at mezzing/charming and any group will love you.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by ElanoraBryght [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bard, Rogue, and Wizard are the three classes I wish I saw more people playing. Both for exp, and in raids.

Even though I play one, i'll admit wizards bring the least to nearly any group (except AoE, where wizards do shine). Even Rangers bring more sustained damage over time. The wizard stun line is ok, but chanter stuns cast a lot faster and seem to draw less aggro, so are more useful for critical interrupts. Sure, wizards can frontload damage in a bad situation - but there are still tons of better classes to deal with a bad situation.

Aside: i'm just being honest - I still love the class and play it as well as I can in any situation - I just prefer to be honest about comparing it with other classes and deal with that reality rather than convincing myself my class is better than it is.

Think of a wizard level 51-59 (sunstrike @60 is roughly 3.59 damage per mana, any of the draught nuke line are about 3.06-3.1 depending on level) as pretty much this:

( [mana regeneration over T time period] x ~3.06 ) - resists = Sustained damage over T

Aside: my #'s on med ticks and c2 might be slightly off, but the point stands)

So, without clarity: [200 mana in 10 ticks or 60 seconds] x ~3.06 = 612 damage per minute = 10.2 DPS.

With C2: [310 mana in 10 ticks or 60 seconds] x ~3.06 = 948.6 damage per minute = 15.81 DPS

Ranger dps with average gear = ???

I don't know what it is, but i'm betting it's higher than 15.81, not including VoG or some other haste...

If rain spells like Tears of Druzzil didn't have such high resist rates and pets didn't eat their ticks (which is a classic mechanic unfortunately), they'd be useful. And it's sad to say, but Splurt alone, with its 6.88 damage per mana ratio and 17 dps over its full duration, is pretty much better than wizard sustained dps (if every mob fought was splurted and took the full duration, which might not happen - but the necro's pet and other dots, although less efficient than splurt, make it no contest).


But suffice it to say, the wizard's benefit is on larger raid mobs where they can dump their damage on a single target in a small window of time or in a situation where AoE is useful...and quad kiting is definitely effective and fun.

But we suck in typical groups.

[Greenkrak]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even though I play one, i'll admit wizards bring the least to nearly any group (except AoE, where wizards do shine). Even Rangers bring more sustained damage over time. The wizard stun line is ok, but chanter stuns cast a lot faster and seem to draw less aggro, so are more useful for critical interrupts. Sure, wizards can frontload damage in a bad situation - but there are still tons of better classes to deal with a bad situation.

Aside: i'm just being honest - I still love the class and play it as well as I can in any situation - I just prefer to be honest about comparing it with other classes and deal with that reality rather than convincing myself my class is better than it is.

Think of a wizard level 51-59 (sunstrike @60 is roughly 3.59 damage per mana, any of the draught nuke line are about 3.06-3.1 depending on level) as pretty much this:

( [mana regeneration over T time period] x ~3.06 ) - resists = Sustained damage over T

Aside: my #'s on med ticks and c2 might be slightly off, but the point stands)

So, without clarity: [200 mana in 10 ticks or 60 seconds] x ~3.06 = 612 damage per minute = 10.2 DPS.

With C2: [310 mana in 10 ticks or 60 seconds] x ~3.06 = 948.6 damage per minute = 15.81 DPS

Ranger dps with average gear = ???

I don't know what it is, but i'm betting it's higher than 15.81, not including VoG or some other haste...

If rain spells like Tears of Druzzil didn't have such high resist rates and pets didn't eat their ticks (which is a classic mechanic unfortunately), they'd be useful. And it's sad to say, but Splurt alone, with its 6.88 damage per mana ratio and 17 dps over its full duration, is pretty much better than wizard sustained dps (if every mob fought was splurted and took the full duration, which might not happen - but the necro's pet and other dots, although less efficient than splurt, make it no contest).


But suffice it to say, the wizard's benefit is on larger raid mobs where they can dump their damage on a single target in a small window of time or in a situation where AoE is useful...and quad kiting is definitely effective and fun.

But we suck in typical groups.

All this may be true, but as previously stated quadding makes up for most of this in being able to fly through levels and make money faster than any other class, not to mention being fun and easily the best soloer in the game xp wise 34+.

What other class can nuke for 1k damage and bring down mobs faster than any other class?

Ive been in plenty of groups as a wiz and unless theres no ench/bard for mana regen i can nuke usually twice per mob (1300ish damage) with Draught spells. Thats about 30% of the mobs health...if thats not dps than i dont know what the fuck is. (using KC as example) Of course if theres like 3 monks or something this will not work as mobs tend to die way to fast.

Sayin a necro dps is better is a joke, necros should know their ROLE and spam twitch and make sure their better half (pet) gets in the action.



O yeah and porting.... not only can this easily fund an above average gear set earlier in a wizz career but porting around wherever the hell you want to go is a HUGE advantage, and you don't have to be a pansy ass druid. Case Closed.






o yea and we all know Spaceman musta got raped by a wiz when he was little or something for all that hate.

[Troy]

Ranger is overpopulated, there should be none. We're all mentally ill in some way for playing them.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All this may be true, but as previously stated quadding makes up for most of this in being able to fly through levels

Only after 24, and still not faster than a necro , or for that matter a mage grinding in the right spots.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and make money faster than any other class

Nope, Seafuries are easier to handle if you can sit on their spawn points with a pet and own their faces. Necros and Mages are better at this.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not to mention being fun and easily the best soloer in the game xp wise 34+

That's necro.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What other class can nuke for 1k damage and bring down mobs faster than any other class?

Very situational. If a mage wants to play hardball he can actually do it better.

And there's not much of a benefit to killing a single mob really quickly and then medding for 8-10 minutes.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ive been in plenty of groups as a wiz and unless theres no ench/bard for mana regen i can nuke usually twice per mob (1300ish damage) with Draught spells. Thats about 30% of the mobs health...if thats not dps than i dont know what the fuck is.

So, you only do one mob every 2 minutes? Because if you're using 430 mana per mob and it takes a little over 2 minutes to med that much mana...

Get a damage parser and see how much damage a rogue, monk, or even a ranger or warrior does in the same span of time, or better yet, across the duration of your group. Your sustained dps is pitiful in comparison.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sayin a necro dps is better is a joke, necros should know their ROLE and spam twitch and make sure their better half (pet) gets in the action.

Yeah, and that necro could literally do absolutely nothing aside from sending his pet at mobs and do more sustained damage than you - particularly if you have a tank that positions mobs so the level 53 necro pet can backstab.

And if you do the math, necro twitch isn't as efficient as the necro actually dpsing - it's more for when the cleric desperately needs mana.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

O yeah and porting.... not only can this easily fund an above average gear set earlier in a wizz career but porting around wherever the hell you want to go is a HUGE advantage

Porting is less pp/hour than quadding seafuries or HGs, or even camping certain named mobs. It's good when you're younger - but unfortunately:

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and you don't have to be a pansy ass druid.

Druids actually get better port locations earlier and can self-sow. They're a better travel class than wizards.


And you're right, the case is closed - because if you run the numbers, wizards lose. Until you actually compare sustained dps during the course of the group, you don't realize what's actually happening. You just see your big numbers and get all misty-eyed.

Wizards simply don't do what other classes can do. Just saying "omg I nuked something for 30% of its life, obviously i'm awesome in a group" doesn't actually compare classes - it's a statement in a vacuum and doesn't accomplish anything.

[Greenkrak]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nope, Seafuries are easier to handle if you can sit on their spawn points with a pet and own their faces. Necros and Mages are better at this.


So, you only do one mob every 2 minutes? Because if you're using 430 mana per mob and it takes a little over 2 minutes to med that much mana...

Porting is less pp/hour than quadding seafuries or HGs, or even camping certain named mobs. It's good when you're younger - but unfortunately:


Druids actually get better port locations earlier and can self-sow. They're a better travel class than wizards.


And you're right, the case is closed - because if you run the numbers, wizards lose. Until you actually compare sustained dps during the course of the group, you don't realize what's actually happening. You just see your big numbers and get all misty-eyed.

Wizards simply don't do what other classes can do. Just saying "omg I nuked something for 30% of its life, obviously i'm awesome in a group" doesn't actually compare classes - it's a statement in a vacuum and doesn't accomplish anything.

Your wrong about seafuries, of course if the island is crowded quaddin is not feasible and therefore you will not be able to kill as many and killin one at a time is worthless as a wiz.

However, when able to quad you can basically destroy 4 seafuries every +/- 11min if you are good at it and you cant tell me necros can do better, because they cant.

And who the fuck wants to play a mage where you are basically sidekick to your pet and all you can do is heal and hope agro doesn't come your way.

And when i say porting for pp of course im talkin about pre seafury lvl and you can make SICK amounts of plat bound in ec, beleive me i know.

Its amazing hearing this coming from a fellow wiz who should know these things but seems clueless.

Noones gettin misty eyed over a lil 658 pt nuke..... but it does damage and unless you just suck at playing your wiz you can nuke 1-2 times easily per mob ( in seb it DOES take 2min to kill a mob with a balanced group) and provide ample dps... of course not as good as dps classes but it is suffienct.

And put me in a group with c2 and bard song ill blow other people outta the water with the damage i can lay down, because thats all your mana goes to... NUKES.


And please tell me sir whats better xp from 40 -50 quadding bloodgills? Answer : nothing and ill put my life on that shit.

I guess all im trying to say as i defend the wiz is that it IS a fun as hell class to play and not once have i felt inferior to anyone, mostly because like many others have little to no respect for mages/necros who get high lvl because frankly, its too fuckin easy as those classes.



Play a wiz for a challenge and you will be rewarded later in your career.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your wrong about seafuries, of course if the island is crowded quaddin is not feasible

If Island is crowded = pretty much always except during super off period...

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, when able to quad you can basically destroy 4 seafuries every +/- 11min if you are good at it and you cant tell me necros can do better, because they cant.

Getting 4 is the hard part - Necros don't have to worry about that, so they can.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And who the fuck wants to play a mage where you are basically sidekick to your pet and all you can do is heal and hope agro doesn't come your way.

Not defending the fun of the mage class, but they level faster than wizards most of the time...

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And when i say porting for pp of course im talkin about pre seafury lvl and you can make SICK amounts of plat bound in ec, beleive me i know.

Again, it's "ok" for mid-level, but you'll make more off certain item camps than from spending your time exclusively porting for plat.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its amazing hearing this coming from a fellow wiz who should know these things but seems clueless.

Call me clueless if you like, but you haven't dealt with any of the numbers i've put up. Even with c2, you're running about 16 dps over time if you're not maxing your mana out (as no wizard would in a group).

Melee do far more sustained damage over the course of a group than a wizard does. Period.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Noones gettin misty eyed over a lil 658 pt nuke..... but it does damage and unless you just suck at playing your wiz you can nuke 1-2 times easily per mob ( in seb it DOES take 2min to kill a mob with a balanced group) and provide ample dps... of course not as good as dps classes but it is suffienct.

I don't see how "unless you suck you can nuke 1-2 times..." Is it skill to meditate the full amount of mana?

Sufficient doesn't cut it - especially when a rogue of equal level would have dealt 3-4x+ that amount of damage you put out per mob, he isn't limited by mana, and he can control his aggro more easily.

I also don't always nuke the same amount of times every fight, since I want to stay at a relatively high level to frontload damage when it's needed most (i.e. large pulls or breaking rooms, etc).

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And please tell me sir whats better xp from 40 -50 quadding bloodgills? Answer : nothing and ill put my life on that shit.

Bloodgills are really awesome, but i've played both wizard and necro. I doubt wizard leveling crests necro single-target speed in the right zone, even doing bloodgills...and I wouldn't put my life on it unless I have the numbers in front of me.

Originally Posted by Greenkrak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess all im trying to say as i defend the wiz is that it IS a fun as hell class to play and not once have i felt inferior to anyone

I don't feel personally inferior to anyone, but I know my class is inferior in certain aspects. Eventually this game comes down to a set of numbers - and how those numbers line up makes all the difference. Nothing i've said demeans or derides the wizard class. It just puts it in its proper perspective.