Warriors. Who tanks with a 2h?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's both to be honest. Typically your well geared warriors also have great agro generation weapons. They may not be Trident/Red Blade since those are really hard to get, but the warriors who are high on the MT list typically have superior weapons to Frostreaver.

How about you run some numbers and list the combinations that are flatly superior and if so to what degree.

Remember all weapons have static proc rates (ie no proc mods). Threat is now capped at 400 with the only exception being red blade (500) and any damage it adds on top (DD and dot).

There are no “god weapons” after the proc aggro nerf. Before, there were a ton to include crap like WESS and infestation much less feverblade etc.

All the “good ones” now have very comparable raw aggro procs. Beyond that it’s just a function of ratio and damage bonus.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know the words math, logic, evidence etc are all dirty words on this forum thanks to DSM but you will need to bring more to the table than “Wrong on all counts, by a large margin” if you actually want to have a meaningful discussion.

Anywho. I’m happy to discuss but please keep the chest thumping, snide patriarchal preaching, and snark out of future replies Solist.

They are not dirty words because of me. They are dirty words due to people like yourself who discard math, logic, evidence, etc. because you don't like where it leads. You still haven't disproven the math, evidence, and logic from the 4 man group thread. You just kept claiming "I am right and you are wrong", while memeing and insulting.

I am glad to see you are learning "I am right and you are wrong" isn't an argument. You are getting your own favorite non-argument/chest thumping/snide patriarchal preaching/snark thrown back at you.

Now, to the topic at hand, Toxigen is correct. Trident and Red Blade are typically what I see on the top warriors. This has been true for years.

Guilds try and rotate who the MT is on easier encounters, so other players get experience tanking in a live raid situation. But you aren't doing that with a Warrior wielding Frostreaver when AoW is contested. You are always going to pick the well geared warriors to be on the top of the list, so you get the kill. Having AoW flip and kill a bunch of your rogues isn't an option.

[Gannun]

Yeah you're right I forgot damage bonus scales with level

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Gannun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah you're right I forgot damage bonus scales with level

Whew excellent. I was suspicious that was where the disconnect was. I have a saved photo of the damage bonuses broken down by delay and level. I’m assuming your warrior was 54-55 when you saw the low 20s discrepancy.

From 51-60 the damage bonus on FR goes
18
20
21
22
26
27
29
31
33
37

It ramps up very nicely and 43 delay is one of the “sweet spots”

[Troxx]

Hidden? No. Under appreciated? Yep.

And yes I’m very much interested in Allyisha’s input. Last time I ran the napkin math Frostreaver was a fair bit above 2h epic:

-procs: 2h epic has a strong proc (675 from 500+ dd). It runs a 300 threat per minute advantage over Frostreaver.
-damage bonus: 2h epic, though faster, actually generates less DB threat because it’s DB is 34. It works out to 1791 hate/min from DB alone. FR is 1857
-white damage potential threat: Frostreaver at 42/43 is a superior ratio to 36/41 … so more actual dps and more actual “white damage” threat.

Both suffer from the whole … 50% less procs which makes the warrior a lot more vulnerable to the random number generated goddess of eq.

But remember. Damage bonus and white aggro threat are a constant. Once you click attack, whether you hit or miss, have avatar or not, critical hit or not … each swing generated identical aggro that is only a function of ratio, damage bonus, and haste (we are assuming here that everyone hits 100%)

The only wild card are the procs. Given enough time you always settle on average but real world could mean you got lucky with 5 procs in the first 30 seconds … or no procs in the first 2 minutes. Al warriors know this and have been there.

[Naethyn]

Offhand procs 50% less so its really 25% less procs, also epic has 100 hp.

[Troxx]

Going from 2 procs to 3 (2 hander to DW) is a 50% increase. Going from 3 down to 2 (depending on how you look at it … is a 33% drop). Funny how math/numbers work. I just always think of it as a 50% drop in available procs.

What are your thoughts Naethyn?

[Naethyn]

Math is hard.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Math is hard.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol fair enough. Best response ever.

I have likely taken something fairly simple and over-complicated it.

I’m a bit of a weirdo and do like to dive into nitty gritty details. Always have. Always will.

If nothing else at least maybe people will recognize that just because they don’t see a thing done commonly doesn’t make it bad or not viable. Most high end weapon combinations involving VP blades, epic, NToV weapons … and yes even FR put out strikingly similar threat.

Just wanted to hear from other warriors who two hand tank. Only Ally thus far has mentioned they have or do (even if situationally).

[Naethyn]

In my experience it comes down to haste. If you have better haste you can use 2h and hold aggro just fine. If you have equal or less haste than you will run into issues.