Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Raavak]

So if Tasselhoff and FE had the upper hand, they would dole out mobs to other people? Get serious.

People just rooting for the underdog and hoping the king is toppled. Ain't gunna happen.

[W8Gamer]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your poker analogy doesn't work. The rules then, were not the same as the rules now. Rules are fluid and change over time. For a better analogy, the guy who's been at the table the longest had been given a +2500 chip bonus when he sat down at the table. By the time you sat down that chip bonus no longer applied, so you have to build yours from scratch, the hard way. That's not "fair" to you.

To your second point, I agree it might be IB who won out and they might be the ones training people out of VP. At some point in the future it may very well FE who are the ones doing it. It's not wrong simply because it's TMO who's doing it and they have an advantage because they've been doing it for so long, it's wrong because TRAINING A ZONE, NERFING IVAYNDERS HOOPS, HAVING 4 DAY VARIANCES ARE NOT CLASSIC EVERQUEST.

If it's not a real attempt to create a classic EverQuest server than fine. Let's just admit it up-front at least and not try to hide behind all of the bullshit rules and changes we've created in an attempt to "create a classic atmosphere". It's a farce.

As I've said, the training rules in VP have nothing to do with what was classic in VP. The GMs have already stated that was the case. So, they have been up front about that. They haven't been hiding behind anything. They've already stated that rules were put in place for reasons that have nothing to do with classic. They've also said they won't comment on it anymore because they've already stated this multiple times.

Now, as far as the rules, I think this is where there is the gap in our understanding. I've been assuming the rules were the same then as they are now. As I've already stated, I wasn't playing during that time. So, please clarify what were the different rules back then that would be equivalent to the +$2500 for sitting at the table as your analogy stated? If I missed it in your previous posts, I apologize.

[Nirgon]

I've never been a fan of variance. I think it should go away in Velious really.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never been a fan of variance. I think it should go away in Velious really.

I think virtually everyone agrees with this statement.

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if Tasselhoff and FE had the upper hand, they would dole out mobs to other people? Get serious.

People just rooting for the underdog and hoping the king is toppled. Ain't gunna happen.

When I was with discussion with FE, they actually agreed with a subset of mobs left for the rest of the server every X weeks (which would mean a tier 2 competition window for smaller / more casual people guilds). But TMO never agreed to it, that's a fact.

I mean, your guild is very good at what it does, there is no denying in it. So you pretty much do what you want with such crushing power, it's your business. But don't deny either that greed is fueling the need for a monopoly more than anything else (a guild bank with 10+ millions pp doesn't back up claims of dire needs). Let's not add hypocrisy to such discussions [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for not willing to track all targets 24/7 because of unclassic variance, that doesn't equal to 0 effort. Giving the opportunity to smaller guilds to compete at their levels would still require some sort of tracking, and a race to boot (yeah, good old races vs camping raid forces at a target feet ^^). But as I said, those on top don't want to consider anything which doesn't come close to what they're putting. Anyway, there are other games to play too. I personally won't be losing sleep over the fact that the top guild won't share even a tiny part of raid targets. But I will take no part of it either.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is that a problem?

I didn't say everyone else wanted nothing.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say everyone else wanted nothing.

That's not your choice. Lol.

Hey, do something about it other than Forumquest!

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by W8Gamer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I've said, the training rules in VP have nothing to do with what was classic in VP. The GMs have already stated that was the case. So, they have been up front about that. They haven't been hiding behind anything. They've already stated that rules were put in place for reasons that have nothing to do with classic. They've also said they won't comment on it anymore because they've already stated this multiple times.

Now, as far as the rules, I think this is where there is the gap in our understanding. I've been assuming the rules were the same then as they are now. As I've already stated, I wasn't playing during that time. So, please clarify what were the different rules back then that would be equivalent to the +$2500 for sitting at the table as your analogy stated? If I missed it in your previous posts, I apologize.

VP was a forced rotation. That's where the +$2500 for sitting at the table came from. Guilds like FE can't even log in and look around and mess around inside of VP, whereas TMO had the entire zone to mess around with and learn. The rotation was supposed to last only the first night, yet it lasted for at least a month I think (my memory is foggy). It was later resumed and there was even more time to learn the zone.

FTE and raiding petitions were also WAY different back then. Let's ignore for now that the lead-gm at the time was corrupt, shady, and dating a member of TMO and just look at the tools at GM disposal. There were no FTE shouts. The 15-man on spawnpoint poopsock rule ended up costing TMO at least one mob. VS could be pulled to KC entrance.

I could go on and on and on. Things change, there is a lot that is different rule wise, and content wise between now and 2 years ago. The reason I highlight that is because, with the training in VP rule being what it is, up and coming guilds like FE that want to raid VP aren't given the same +$2500 for sitting at the table that TMO and IB had. They don't get to play around in the zone for a month and get loot before deciding to train each other. Most guilds know that if they step foot in there they are going to be immediately trained, so they don't bother.

Ignoring what's "fair" for a second, let's not forget the main point and premise I have for being in this thread, and it's in the thread title: Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic. Now while only a fool would think the experience would be identical due to the game having been out for 14 years and various fixes and unintentional non-classic features existing, the fact that people have intentionally changed the raiding scene by deviating from what is classic everquest is bs imo, no matter what reasons they were for.

Sadly most people don't seem to agree with that, and if variance and nerfing ivandyrs hoops make it so that the raid scene is more competitive than the alternative of having a bunch of people sit on a spawn point spamming target so that they can hoop it down and the first group to get exp wins the encounter then they are all for creating variance and nerfing ivandyrs hoops. Similarly if they think that allowing training to occur in end-zones is a good idea because then they don't have to deal with the same number of petitions, or because it artificially leaves only the most dedicated guild to monopolize the content as happened on live when so many others could be in there doing it (not typically the case on live) then whatever.

But let's get one thing straight, that's not classic EverQuest.

When it's done INTENTIONALLY then I think it's very sad for those who want nothing more than to play on a server that is a recreation of this game during it's early years.

Shit has got nothing to do with TMO, or anyone else.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not your choice. Lol.

Hey, do something about it other than Forumquest!

Putting in my app to TMO now.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never been a fan of variance. I think it should go away in Velious really.

Should have never existed outside of where it did on live servers between 1999-2002