My America

[astarothel]

Guns: they're pretty much like penises. Their only use is for fucking people.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by ShadowWulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What IS liberty? I am rather interested in your definition.

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im still struggling with this issue. I used to be a staunch supporter of weapon bans of any kind, until i was attacked 3 times in 6 months in the subway. Now i carry a knife. I differ in that from most people from the left i guess.

But that leaves also other areas with big question marks. Like people showing up with automatic rifles at rallies of the kind i join sometimes in Canada, just to intimidate people. Columbine doesnt happen often in Canada because its alot harder to get access to these kinds of weapons. So im still struggling about where i stand on this issue.

Liberty is also for me freedom of association and freedom of speech, freedom of movement which we are seeing being repressed in lots of western countries at this point in time. All the simple things that are in the american constitution, canadian charter of rights and freedoms, UN declaration of human rights, thats liberty to me. Its more than that, but those are the basics.

I wouldn't say it's a left or right issue regarding gun ownership. I'm not sure why it would matter.

But to put it in general about liberty, it is the conduit to freedom. So like a sailor has the freedom to go ashore and get himself a prostitute, but only at liberty of doing so. There may be freedoms, but limited liberty to exercise those freedoms... to a point of making it not free any longer.

And yes, I have been assaulted a number of times, I grew up in LA. I think that when we live a sheltered existence, we disassociate ourselves with reality; to what is really going on in the world around us. It should effect us when others come to harm, especially if they could have prevented it. Cops cant be there for us at all times, but I can be there for my neighbor, and have.

[ShadowWulf]

I'm posting from my phone so ill be very brief. I find it fascinating how ones definition is singularly focused on one issue, yet some would define liberty as persuing happiness and success, with or without a weapon, yet not hinge their definition on the ability or carry a full auto assault rifle since outside all but the most utterly extreme of circumstances such a weapon acts as a method of life and liberty denier to another.

For the record I own weapons and have posted myself at the range in another thread here. However in no way do they define me or guide my acts in persuit of freedom.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't kid yourself. You can do that in most other countries in the world too. America is not special. Furthermore, the American military hasn't done ANYTHING towards THOSE ENDS since we BEGRUDGINGLY fought in ww2. The VAST majority of the TOTAL funds applied to the US military has gone towards doomsday bombs / deployment, and killing civillians in foreign countries for the protection of monetary interests.


You don't have to tell me about how the benefits are not that great. Ask me why I didn't join. Also, ask me what it's like trying to get my brain-damaged brother admitted to the VA hospital near me.


There is a number, but the US Military isn't willing to pay it. Blackwater.. That's probably another story. However, this is a very shaky argument because of the above debunking of the motives of the US Military, which have nothing to do with "putting your life on the line to protect the state." That is such a laughable premise that I am actually quite surprised you would even begin to stoop to it. It is patently false, and I defy you to support it with ANY form of evidence.

The fact is that YOU TOOK A JOB. You were offered a pay scale and a benefits package, and you TOOK IT. That was a decision on your part. Whether or not you were deluded into thinking that CHOICE was somehow patriotic or not is completely beside the point.


See above. You were offered a job, you did a (probably quick and deluded) estimate, and you signed the contract. Whine somewhere else.

You are not a patriot just because you were brainwashed and are deluded, no matter how many flags you wave or how many bullets you've taken while killing brown children.

You're wrong and it is patently absurd for you to tell me what I did and why. Like my father before me and like his father before him, I served my country before I began my career. I would have made more money working at McDonald's.

I am not whining about anything. I love my country and I would serve again if called upon. I am not a mercenary; I am not a whore. One of us seems to think about everything in terms of dollars; I do not.

Your argument style is extremely offensive, insulting and unattractive. In one short post you have managed to suggest that I am not only a whore but a cheap whore, that I am brainwashed, that I am deluded, and that I am a murderer. All this because you do not agree with me that America's problems can be solved and that it is up to us, the American people, to help solve them. I suggest you read your own words carefully and reflect on what they say about you.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wouldn't say it's a left or right issue regarding gun ownership. I'm not sure why it would matter.

Because alot of people on the left regard NRA type people as gun nuts, and alot are, like the guy who shot a 16 year old exchange student on halloween because she stepped on his property.

But again as i said, im conflicted because i tend to agree with people like you who make a case that people have a right to defend themselves on principle, but i do have alot of reservations.

[Taxi]

This is part of why i agree with people like daywolf on self-defense issues:

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Garment workers protests in Bengladesh this week

[astarothel]

My stance on firearms:

A semi-automatic weapon, or weapons with semi-automatic capabilities (especially rifles) or better are not civilian weapons. Play with them at a range all you want, but I don't think I want these belong anywhere in a residence.

Weapons registration is a no brainer. I don't care how inconvenient it is, the excuse that criminals don't have to register their guns doesn't float with me. law enforcement officials should be able to pull up that sort of thing. If Jimbo is involved in a domestic disturbance with his wife, if I were the police I think I'd like to know if he has any registered firearms ahead of time.

The screening process and background check on firearms needs to be improved dramatically, especially for concealable firearms. I don't care if it takes an extra month, the current process needs to be improved in both Canada and the US. I do not feel that there are many cases where firearm is needed as quickly as they are available. Self-defense in the event a person feels threatened isn't a great reason in and of itself. The reason I say this is that a person getting a firearm for self defense won't have the training and judgment required to use it properly. This ties in to my next point.

Everyone that owns a gun thinks they know how to use it well or properly.
A large number of these people are wrong. The firearms safety course should be 1) mandatory in all states, and 2) more extensive. Retakes on the safety course should be required (maybe not yearly but every so often) for renewing your license. Wish I could find the clip from tv I saw a while ago (from 60 Minutes I think) that proved this. I will look for it later.

[astarothel]

I am not a massive Real News Network Fan.
I am however a massive Steve Paikin fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWNq...layer_embedded

[ShadowWulf]

For self defense:

In no first world country (or most others for that matter) which allows guns is the right to use them in self defense intended to apply to the government, no matter how severe the mistreatment. Those are the simple (and proven) facts on the matter. Even if the cops in the picture above had been shot by a concerned citizen, i guarantee you in this and that society the shooter would be dead.

If the goverment came to take your guns, illegally or not, and you shot first you are in the wrong under modern day laws. Period. Its the corner youre driven into.

The only use people who claim they are self defense weapons against a government is for violent, armed overthrow, not defense.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by ShadowWulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For self defense:

In no first world country (or most others for that matter) which allows guns is the right to use them in self defense intended to apply to the government, no matter how severe the mistreatment. Those are the simple (and proven) facts on the matter. Even if the cops in the picture above had been shot by a concerned citizen, i guarantee you in this and that society the shooter would be dead.

If the goverment came to take your guns, illegally or not, and you shot first you are in the wrong under modern day laws. Period. Its the corner youre driven into.

The only use people who claim they are self defense weapons against a government is for violent, armed overthrow, not defense.

That depends what kind you repression you are facing. If that was my kid getting his ass beat down by a thug in armor, id be thinking about it. If i was an iraqi who lost all my family to american shock and awe, id be doing it.

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo probably would have wished to have a firearm to at least take some of them cops down with him.