Warriors are useless in 90% of the games content

[Botten]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m glad it’s taken 27 pages to conclude a knight might be optimal at tanking casual content. It’s basically the crux of the first post of this stupid thread. No, in normal situations warriors don’t do substantially more dps than knights. No, epics won’t fix all a warriors aggro problems with 30 second fights.

If a warrior needs to believe they are the best tank for all situations they are sorely mistaken but likely won’t accept the fact.

If a knight feels warriors have no place with group content because someone else might occasionally get hit. Same thing.

If you are in seb and not wearing kunark gear it shouldn’t be challenging. Just fill the “tank” roll with anyone and move on.

So there you have it Group EXP equals easy.

Knights get over monks better damage and mitigation.

Best group exp tank (cuz it is easy) is Ranger with best aggro tools, Damage, utility and awareness when Named pops.

What don't like Ranger mitigation and HP pool, meh, should have gotten a warrior. After all warriors have better damage than knights.

In conclusion, poor knight classes.

[Guesty07]

Knights are a great low man group tank. My issue is when people say things like warriors are rubbish in groups. It's completely made up bullshit. You either don't group with them enough or you already have a bias against them. Warriors shred and ate tough as nails.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Genuinely curious where are these parses where wars just blow away knight dps, especially in velious.

I leveled a war to 60 with KT axe. Not the best weapon but fairly decent at 37/36 with good stats. Honestly never felt like I was doing special dps.

If you really want to play a war, then find a group who will let you zerk while the knight actually tanks.

Warrior should be trying to stay berserk in most situations where they aren't depending on Complete Heal; it's viable while tanking for plenty of group content. Warrior can dual wield, knights can not (you were playing Warrior sub-optimally). Warrior has higher offensive skillcaps and also triple attack at 60. Warrior gets precision/aggressive discipline (and precision disc on p99 is bugged to give 100% hit rate). Add up all those things and it's a big difference, a huge one when considering a Warrior using disc.

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's say we have an awesome composition here: 2 Rogues, 1 Enchanter, 1 Cleric, 1 Monk. I'm heading off to Seb. I have a choice between Warrior or Paladin. Guess which one I'm going to pick?

I'm taking the Warrior pre-Velious for a Sebilis exp group. Paladin stats are poopy at that point and they cause the group an exp penalty on top of it (technically in Velious era a Warrior still provides the group a better exp modifier, but it's very minor at that point).

Velious era, for a group like that, it generally won't matter between the Warrior or Paladin. Having the Paladin will allow the Cleric to be lazier but that's not a strictly better thing. If planning to break a hard area of the zone, Warrior popping defensive disc can be nice.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

epics won’t fix all a warriors aggro problems with 30 second fights.

Warriors don't have an "aggro problem" unless you're with a group of bad players, or trying to fight content where your casters are too low level for root to land consistently.

[Jimjam]

Well the OP is cross talking themself, and gloomy continues that troll.

The premise is warriors are useless in 90% of content but the argument made to support that other classes do better than them 90% of the time.

The assumption underlying the argument that being “competent but not best” is equivalent to “useless” is inherently faulty, which is why this thread drags on.

I must confess to being guilty at fishing for exciting big crips.

[Philistine]

I agree that "not optimal" does not equal useless. I love warriors, but others don't have to!

How great is this game that the classes are different enough that we can have these* discussions/arguments instead of tanks all being clones of each other? Love it.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's say we have an awesome composition here: 2 Rogues, 1 Enchanter, 1 Cleric, 1 Monk. I'm heading off to Seb. I have a choice between Warrior or Paladin. Guess which one I'm going to pick?

Drop the 2 rogues unless you're going to CE and forget about the tank.

Enc / Cleric / Monk is all you need for literally every camp in Seb except Emperor + Crypt which these days some idiot will probably try to lawyerquest you off crypt even if you're holding all the spawns down throughout CE.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Managing aggro is not difficult at all, the casters just need to root the MOBs and also blind if needed for summoning level MOBs.

I don't think blind works like this. I've been trying to figure out if there are any possible raid uses for Blinding Poison III for a long time now, and one of the mechanics tests I tried was to see if I could do controlled tank swaps without having high aggro on a permarooted mob while ranged characters DPS and having the blind keep them from summoning. The end result was the caster got summoned even though the tank was in melee. Maybe its different if the target is actually rooted and blind or unrooted and blind, but I doubt it.

This threw a wrench in plans I had to try and do a 25 puppet PBAOE puppet show in Plane of Mischief by having a shaman solo Geb for a day, then getting ~10 wizards and some Melees with bump disc and PBAOE out each puppet stack for throne farming. But the only 25 target AOE blind lasts 1 tick, so can't be made permanent even with a chain, and blind doesn't seem to block summon anyway, so that dream died [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Drop the 2 rogues unless you're going to CE and forget about the tank.

Enc / Cleric / Monk is all you need for literally every camp in Seb except Emperor + Crypt which these days some idiot will probably try to lawyerquest you off crypt even if you're holding all the spawns down throughout CE.

See! Testimony that both the Paladin and Warrior are useless in the given example!

[Snaggles]

If you are dealing with mobs that summon root and blind are only going to last so long.
I have a 60 pally and love the class. I’ve tanked most the content one would expect outside slowed non-Lord/Lady dragons in ToV. Warriors are really cool, full stop.

Monks actually take hits really well; per hit better than knights. Without aggro spells or even a taunt skill you just have to rely on dps to peel or hope someone will root stuff. That and like rangers the average ones aren’t HP optimized like tanks that gear for that.

Monk: 252 Defense, 230 Dodge, 225 Block, 225 Riposte
Pal: 252 Defense, 155 Dodge, 205 Parry, 200 Riposte

I’d agree with most here. I don’t like “____ class sucks” threads. There is fair critique for all the classes but these aren’t detail oriented. In the end just slow stuff, root stuff, let the tank take hits. Keep the yellow bar ticking away.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warrior should be trying to stay berserk in most situations where they aren't depending on Complete Heal; it's viable while tanking for plenty of group content. Warrior can dual wield, knights can not (you were playing Warrior sub-optimally). Warrior has higher offensive skillcaps and also triple attack at 60. Warrior gets precision/aggressive discipline (and precision disc on p99 is bugged to give 100% hit rate). Add up all those things and it's a big difference, a huge one when considering a Warrior using disc.



I'm taking the Warrior pre-Velious for a Sebilis exp group. Paladin stats are poopy at that point and they cause the group an exp penalty on top of it (technically in Velious era a Warrior still provides the group a better exp modifier, but it's very minor at that point).

Velious era, for a group like that, it generally won't matter between the Warrior or Paladin. Having the Paladin will allow the Cleric to be lazier but that's not a strictly better thing. If planning to break a hard area of the zone, Warrior popping defensive disc can be nice.



Warriors don't have an "aggro problem" unless you're with a group of bad players, or trying to fight content where your casters are too low level for root to land consistently.

Just one thing, even war are better off with 2h for dps now . Which knights would also use. If ya dpsing you shouldn’t be dual wielding it’s worse dps.