EQNext Discussion

[Rust1d?]

I want to beta test this before I pass judgement but some of the ideas are kinda cool, some not so much.

- I like that I can start as a DE mage and gain faction with, say the dwarves. I always thought that EQ1 lacked the ability to "switch sides" and be able to complete quests in towns where I would be KOS.

- Multi-classing seems like a good idea, but I think they should have stuck to traditional roles. Multi-classing will create OP classes, gimped/never played classes etc. Lots of balance issues too. If I am playing a wizard, I am playing it because that is my play style. If I wanted to be a wizard who can heal, I would just be a cleric...

- Destructible environments seems cool ala minecraft. Say you are raiding naggy and want to prevent another guild from showing up, you simply destroy a few bridges etc. Although, if you can find different areas like you do in minecraft, people will just start digging random holes all over the place.

- Graphics look too cartoony and WoW like. The Kerran looked like shit.

- Combat looked like a mess, but will reserve judgement when beta opens.

- Oversized weapons and shoulders looks too WoW/Diablo 3 like. They need to get away from that.

[Fawqueue]

Originally Posted by Rust1d? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want to beta test this before I pass judgement but some of the ideas are kinda cool, some not so much.

- I like that I can start as a DE mage and gain faction with, say the dwarves. I always thought that EQ1 lacked the ability to "switch sides" and be able to complete quests in towns where I would be KOS.

I'm down with this, although I hope they still include racial prejudice into the faction equation so that it requires more work for a Dark Elf to be welcome than a Gnome.

Originally Posted by Rust1d? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Multi-classing seems like a good idea, but I think they should have stuck to traditional roles. Multi-classing will create OP classes, gimped/never played classes etc. Lots of balance issues too. If I am playing a wizard, I am playing it because that is my play style. If I wanted to be a wizard who can heal, I would just be a cleric...

I couldn't agree more. I think the evolution of classes in MMOs is much like everything else: Remove punishing choices. Although it may not be my preference, I'd understand if they built a system where you could unlock each class on a single character and choose and change when desired. However, this multi-classing thing is going to make class choices become more like those boring talent trees found in modern MMOs. Optimal builds will be discovered and that's what the large majority will run with.

Originally Posted by Rust1d? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Destructible environments seems cool ala minecraft. Say you are raiding naggy and want to prevent another guild from showing up, you simply destroy a few bridges etc. Although, if you can find different areas like you do in minecraft, people will just start digging random holes all over the place.

Since this is a cornerstone of what they are trying to sell, I'm interested to see how it actually plays out. And while the ability to affect raid competition through clever environmental changes would be great, I'm willing to bet a nut that the entire raid scene will be instanced. Since we know instancing is confirmed, and everything else revealed so far suggests an easy experience rather than a hardcore challenge, I can't see them suddenly alienating the casual, new-timer MMOers that are going to be the core demographic by suddenly making raiding 'challenging'. You know, by having to coordinate more than "Everyone be online at 7 and bring your potions".

Originally Posted by Rust1d? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Graphics look too cartoony and WoW like. The Kerran looked like shit.

- Combat looked like a mess, but will reserve judgement when beta opens.

- Oversized weapons and shoulders looks too WoW/Diablo 3 like. They need to get away from that.

Yup. I'll hate all of that, but my 12-year old will cream his pants for the first time upon entering the game.

[Rust1d?]

I think the main thing they need to get right is what EQ1 was based on. That was survival by grouping and requiring certain classes skills. When everybody started EQ, and you needed to locate your corpse, you had to find someone to do that. If you wanted to get from Point A to point B quickly, you needed to find someone to do that.

Want to be able to do deep, hard content? You need a mezzer. Needed a tank? you need to get a warrior.

Every class had their niche (some fulfilled it better than others). You needed to rely on teamwork and diversity to succeed. If the social aspect is not good, the game will fail.

The keys I see for success are:

#1 - Good social apspect
#2 - Balance between hardcore and casual

Everything else would be secondary

[Rust1d?]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If that's the key to success, why do no companies follow that model anymore? Please answer that.

Limiting game access by requiring players of a certain type (or any other way), doesn't bode well anymore. If I only have 1-2 hours a day to play a video game, I should be able to play it, not sit around hoping to find the right class to venture forward. If you want a community the size of P1999, then it may work, but it's a terrible business model for a new game/company. If you target a tiny market, your revenue generated will be...tiny. Businesses exist to make money, not to make us old EQ players happy. Adapt or leave.

If you want success in terms of $$, then yes, casual is the way to go. I meant if the game itself is to be successful, i.e., fun, than it needs balance. But if the game is all about $$, why not just make games like Candy Crush or something like that?

MMOs are not designed to be for casual players. They are meant for people who can devote 40 hours a week to them. Anything other than WoW will fail because why bother going to a WoW clone? How did SWTOR do? It failed and went FTP. So if you are going to make a casual MMO, you may as well save your money.

[liveitup1216]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Limiting game access by requiring players of a certain type (or any other way), doesn't bode well anymore. If I only have 1-2 hours a day to play a video game, I should be able to play it, not sit around hoping to find the right class to venture forward.

Those games already exist. If you only have 1-2 hours to play, that's your problem. You're not entitled to anything just because you're playing the game. That line of thinking is why games like SWTOR and World of Warcraft don't hold my interest. (I initially wrote these games suck, but yes for profit they are fantastic games. For substance and challenge and community, they're awful.)

It's that weird sense of "everyone is special and everyone gets a trophy and you're all winners" mentality that breeds terrible people.

[Kika Maslyaka]

some of my views you probably don't care about but still:

-Multiclassicing - utterly ruins my thematic enjoyment of game. Clerics bestow holy blessings, druids protect nature, Mages control elements, necromancer raise the dead. When I see a char who can do everything at once (even if in limited power) I don't want to be in that theme world anymore. I liked how Rift looked (generally), but I cannot stand a thought that you can be necromancer/paladin. It just doesn't make sense. Yes you can come up with any lore you like to justify that, but its not something that is acceptable to me.

-Destructible environments - utterly pointless in the grand matter of things. Its an MMO, not a minecraft/terraria. I won't be mining 50000000 tons of ore and making your own mushroom gardens everywhere. The point of the fantasy theme MMO is to seek out monsters and slay them - not to dig in the mud. Not to mention you WON"T b able to do any major destruction like - destroying the only bridge that grants access to a unique raid mob - since that would be causing grief to others and most likely count as banneable offense. (not to mention that 90% of all group/raid content WILL BE instanced)

- Graphics = Disneyland. Can you say that SOE is desperate? EQ1 was eclipsed by WoW within a few months, and EQ2 failed to stand up to WoW subscription base after a year, and since NUMBERS is what brings cash in - SOE will naturally try to copy any feature they deem successful in order to draw customers their way. I think that EQ2 was a good project in the beginning. The graphics were solid, it offered solo gameplay to casuals, and grouping/raiding to hard core, and it HAD an awesome crafting system. But then SOE started their desperate run to catch up with WoW, dumbing things down, simplifying crafting system, but in the end it didn't matter. And yet again - they didn't learn their lesson. The market doesn't need ANOTHER casual cartoonish MMO - its already has one that is pretty stable and known world-wide. Yet SOE willing to burn 100-200mln on this project in hope to steal just a little bit more of potential players. SOE doesn't try to offer something revolutionary new to get noticed like they did with EQ1, and like Blizz did with WoW, instead they trying to copy every popular feature from other games and serve them on the same plate not putting in any thought if those features even fit together. I can tell you right now what they will gain out of it - EQN will get its moment, draw in some old schoolers, draw in some people who on the break from WoW/other MMOs, start releasing expansion packs twice a year, and as the novelty dies down, it will settle somewhere 100k-200k player base and once again be left in the shadow of WoW.

SOE had their chance if not be successful, to at least be different with EQ2, offering realistic graphics, darker theme and greater shift towards grouping/raiding, but in desperate attempt to catch-up with WoW hype they run their creation into the ground.
EQN will follow the same fate.

[Faerie]

It will be a game for casuals. The fact that each player is able to break through the planet's crust is very telling.

[mtb tripper]

I agree with pingu

[Richard Dunn]

Such a shame they botched it, you know they did to...such a dam shame.

[liveitup1216]

Dave Georgeson said he wants people playing the game and not looking at maps or wiki's or having their hand held, and that they're tired of every cookie cutter boring MMO out there.

My point was there's already a game for mouthbreathers to get their loot pinata fix and not have to work to achieve anything, and SOE knows this. They're not looking to bite into that market, they're looking to change the market entirely.

Wanting to play for 1-2 hours and be on the same level as someone who plays 20-30 hours is some great special olympics logic. Here's a few hard facts: you're not a special snowflake, life's not fair, other people are better than you.