Americans and Guns (post pics of your armory !)

[Sodapop]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a mature understanding of the value of a gun.

An immature understanding of the value of a gun would be a belief that you should carry your gun everywhere you go to defend yourself from unspeakable terrors that may await at Starbucks and to Red Dawn your way to freedom against The Government when they come to take your guns, women, and college football team.

Coming from a concealed carry state, we had a case go up here last year I believe that a state university student in my town who was an Iraq war veteran wanted to have concealed carry on campus, but could not because it was state property. I don't know if it passed or not but the last thing I would want in a class room that sits 200 students would be not one person shooting, but more then one. Handguns are inaccurate as fuck.

I don't like guns but if other people can and do have them, I sure as hell am going to have them and know how to use them. I just keep them put up.

[Turp]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ultimately it was an unwinnable conflict in the strategic sense, because the rules of engagement prevented NATO from mistreating civilians,Similar to our current conflict in Afghanistan, we have complete force superiority. We, at this moment, have the power to round up every Afghan man, woman, and child, and kill them. That would end the conflict. The issue of win vs. no-win lies in the rules of engagement, not in the power of our military machine.

Exactly lol , No shit we can nuclear bomb Afghanistan an kill everyone and "win" in your eyes, do you not think those rules of engagement would apply to American citizens? hell with the way shits going probably not so you may be right[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] They never could round us up but with your logic yes they could win any battle technically with 1 bomb. Its true they were not aloud to use Nukes, so they packed up and went home after months of getting shot at by random people, you can never win without a nuke, you could never round up every single citizen unless they were dead or you had some insanely huge prison, that is exactly what would happen in America. TBH i do not think they cared about civil rights of the viet congo we took airforce etc over there and really fucked them up but it was vs farmers with guns and we had to back out.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Turp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The jews could of easily fought back if they were all armed an not scared

Don't go off topic, this was the point of contention.

Originally Posted by Turp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you can never win without a nuke, you could never round up every single citizen unless they were dead or you had some insanely huge prison

Oh shit, I think you just described the holocaust.

Originally Posted by Turp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

had some insanely huge prison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz

The point is, you don't need to nuke a population to systematically exterminate them. It doesn't matter how many guns you have, you're not going to out-gun a modern, well-trained military like ours. Red Dawn was just a movie.

[Turp]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aw shit I got called out for strawmanning a stupid analogy for quoting...... a strawmanned stupid analogy.

Are you seriously implying our current political culture has ANY relevance to those authoritarian regimes? The argument at hand is: "Constitutional Republic with a cultural heritage of respect for the common law tradition placing restrictions on gun ownership", it's not some link in a chain leading to to a police state you fucking survivalist moron.

In your eyes what is a police state? we have military and police roaming the streets (end of posse commentatus and what Hitler one of those regimes did), Free speech zones where you can only protest in these certain zones , NDAA bill passed which is a bill that is like wiping your ass with the constitution and ending due process in court if they say so ( Hitler / China / North korea all just do this and not put it into law like we have done), Attorney general of the United States Eric Holder on TV saying we need to brain wash the public into gun control ( Again they also did this ), Bills like SOPA / CISPA to censor the internet ( Same shit in those regimes censoring the TV) , We have Fluoride in our water ( Fluoride used by Nazis to sterilize inmates and make them docile ) and the list goes on and on, stay in denial all you want , but tyranny is abroad and denial just makes you part of the problem.

[Harmonium]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Similarly, the American revolution was a battle more against British willpower than British military might. We made it an expensive war on an already debt-laden empire. It just wasn't worth it for them to try and lock down what was only a marginally profitable set of colonies compared to their holdings in India and elsewhere.

Okay lets look at the war of 1812. England was feeling mighty powerful. They had just destroyed Napoleon. And they leveled their eyes on America and decided it was time to bring our seditious nation back into the fold.

And when they landed the steamrolled us. Burned the white house, cities and villages up and down the Mississippi were burning from Native American tribes that had been bought for the English cause. We were out numbered, out gunned, and the English forces were clearly more veteran from their extremely recent war in Europe.

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nazi Germany? No, the Jews would have gone against the ~entirety~ of the Nazi war machine, who had no rules of engagement precluding the massacre of men, women and children. No amount of assault rifles or Jewish survivalist rednecks would have changed that outcome, sorry.

In the spring of 1967, following close to a decade of relative calm, Israel found itself poised for war against four of its Arab neighbors.

According to all the military analysts and pundits, it was to be a lopsided match. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) consisted of 275,000 troops, compared to the 456,000 soldiers of the combined Iraqi, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. The united Arab forces also had a decided edge with regards to weaponry and military equipment: they boasted more than double the amount of tanks, and close to four times the amount of combat aircraft. The three-week period preceding the Six-Day War was one of dread, shock and fright for the residents of the Holy Land.

With close to two and a half million Jews living in the tiny country, it had the highest concentration of Jews since pre-Holocaust Eastern Europe. So pessimistic was the outlook that the nation’s cemeteries and national parks were marked to become gravesites for the many who would surely perish in the course of the war.

However, despite all the prognostications, by the time the war ended, the territory under Israeli control had tripled in size. Jews returned to sites where their ancestors had lived for thousands of years, sites from which waves of terror were launched against them for so many years. The casualties and losses were painful, but minimal in comparison to all projections. The Jewish nation was miraculously victorious in the face of unbelievable odds.

History books speak of the “Hundred Years’ War,” the “Thirty Years’ War,” and many other long-fought battles. Here, in a matter of six short days, a nation managed to utterly rout not one, but four powerful enemies!

[Amesplayerofgames]

I hate you fucking hicks.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Turp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In your eyes what is a police state? we have military and police roaming the streets (end of posse commentatus and what Hitler one of those regimes did), Free speech zones where you can only protest in these certain zones , NDAA bill passed which is a bill that is like wiping your ass with the constitution and ending due process in court if they say so ( Hitler / China / North korea all just do this and not put it into law like we have done), Attorney general of the United States Eric Holder on TV saying we need to brain wash the public into gun control ( Again they also did this ), Bills like SOPA / CISPA to censor the internet ( Same shit in those regimes censoring the TV) , We have Fluoride in our water ( Fluoride used by Nazis to sterilize inmates and make them docile ) and the list goes on and on, stay in denial all you want , but tyranny is abroad and denial just makes you part of the problem.

Quit trying to imply the United States is a police state. We are a constitutional republic, considerably more conservative even than other republics in Europe who don't suffer the "police state" baggage. We have an apparatus for enforcing the rule of law, a police force whose reach is severely limited. Do they occasionally abuse their power? Yes. Are they human? Yes. Should that completely de-legitimize the entire concept of policing? No.

What would it take for you to be happy with governmental authority? Would you like anarchy? Do you want things here to be like they are in Somalia, where there is no rule of law or legitimate centralized government? Why do you obsessively fear one end of the extreme, totalitarianism, but neglect the other, anarchy?

Why is it that even the most minor act of government, like water fluoridation, or the passing of laws meant more to protect the profits of media enterprises than facilitate propaganda, are steps toward Nazi-on-Earth, but deregulation and reductions in governmental authority aren't steps toward Somalian anarchy?

Try to see outside of black-and-white thinking and acknowledge that political thought exists on a spectrum, where we ideally tend toward the middle. It's so incredibly outlandish for you to associate our behaviors with descent into a fascist police state, for so many reasons, it just boggles my mind how you can possibly think this.

Originally Posted by Harmonium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the spring of 1967, following close to a decade of relative calm, Israel found itself poised for war against four of its Arab neighbors.

According to all the military analysts and pundits, it was to be a lopsided match. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) consisted of 275,000 troops, compared to the 456,000 soldiers of the combined Iraqi, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. The united Arab forces also had a decided edge with regards to weaponry and military equipment: they boasted more than double the amount of tanks, and close to four times the amount of combat aircraft. The three-week period preceding the Six-Day War was one of dread, shock and fright for the residents of the Holy Land.

With close to two and a half million Jews living in the tiny country, it had the highest concentration of Jews since pre-Holocaust Eastern Europe. So pessimistic was the outlook that the nation’s cemeteries and national parks were marked to become gravesites for the many who would surely perish in the course of the war.

However, despite all the prognostications, by the time the war ended, the territory under Israeli control had tripled in size. Jews returned to sites where their ancestors had lived for thousands of years, sites from which waves of terror were launched against them for so many years. The casualties and losses were painful, but minimal in comparison to all projections. The Jewish nation was miraculously victorious in the face of unbelievable odds.

History books speak of the “Hundred Years’ War,” the “Thirty Years’ War,” and many other long-fought battles. Here, in a matter of six short days, a nation managed to utterly rout not one, but four powerful enemies!

Are you seriously comparing the potency of the Israeli military machine to jewish civilians living scattered among Europe? What the fuck is this retarded source? The arabs had a numerical advantage but their tanks were old and outdated. Their troops were poorly trained and undisciplined, often running at the first sign of combat. Israel had complete and total air superiority, which is essential in modern conflict. Again, the Arabs had more aircraft but of inferior design, and lacked the command and control apparatus to effectively coordinate an air campaign.

They were decisively defeated by a far superior Israeli military, heavily funded by Western nations and provided with top of the line, sophisticated equipment and modern command doctrine and signals intelligence.

I can't believe you are seriously trying to argue that civilian jews, even if armed, could have defended themselves from the Nazi regime, and that you'd cite a conflict involving one of the most well-trained, well-equipped militaries in the world to support that argument.

[Barkingturtle]

Honestly, guns aren't the answer.

More guns are also: not the answer.

The only way to avoid killing sprees like the one which occurred in Aurora is to stop allowing young white dudes to live alone. It should be illegal for a white dude to live alone before the age of thirty, probably. At the very least, white dudes under twenty-five who live alone should be required to register with the government and be subject to surveillance.

You know it's true, fellas. Bros just get too weird when left to their own. If your mom wasn't upstairs, you'd probably have a little girl tied up in your closet or a bunch of bombs rigged to incinerate anyone foolish enough to enter your sweaty little lair.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Alawen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point was extremely straightforward. All evidence suggests that the presence of more guns results in more gun violence. The theory forwarded in this thread is that the solution to situations like the Aurora shooting is the presence of more guns. That theory has no evidence to support it whatsoever.

Because you claim not to enter any environment without your gun, you would not have been in the theater to prevent the Aurora shooting. In reality, you're making all of this up and you would have cowered between rows of seats when bullets started flying in the dark like any sane person.

None of this will stop you from continue your right-fighting based on nothing but supposition and rhetoric. You're trying to play gun-toting badass on the internet. I, for one, am not impressed. I doubt anyone else is either.

I'm Chuck Norris on the internet. Also, Hitler.

I never said I was a gun-toting badass. I think that is quite obvious if you could read. I have also been shot at before, it wasn't fun then and it wouldn't be fun again. However, I would not hide like a coward and wait for my turn at the barrel when I could do something.

Cowering when you have the ability to save lives isn't sane. It's straight lunacy.

Glad to know a "marine" vet. was out there that had this mentality, yet now I totally question your previous statement of serving.

[Alawen]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said I was a gun-toting badass. I think that is quite obvious if you could read. I have also been shot at before, it wasn't fun then and it wouldn't be fun again. However, I would not hide like a coward and wait for my turn at the barrel when I could do something.

Cowering when you have the ability to save lives isn't sane. It's straight lunacy.

Glad to know a "marine" vet. was out there that had this mentality, yet now I totally question your previous statement of serving.

That's an exciting life you're living, son. Toting that iron with you every wear you go, bullets whizzing by your head. Oh, wait. You've been watching movies again and forgetting it's not real, haven't you?

One of the service men who was actually in the Aurora shooting did exactly what I typed. He threw his girlfriend to the floor and covered her with his body. Then he took one for the team. She survived.

Standing there and returning fire is the fastest way to becoming one of the victims. You won't find one member of the police force or military who will endorse that tactic, unless you count Dirty Harry. You're seriously delusional, kid.