Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This speaks volumes about how badly you want to prove I am wrong (but are still failing).

You have to try and make druid healing sound better when you think it's all redundant anyway. Torpor is the vastly superior heal to Druid healing.

You forget Shamans can nuke too (the nukes are very similar to Druids), but you don't claim they are decent too. Instead Shaman DPS is "Ass-craptic". You also think Druid DS is better DPS than a Shaman Pet.

I am not sure why you bother writing these long summaries when you can't even be honest about them. You're attempts to make Shamans sound worse are painfully clear.

Sorry druid being better for this group than shaman triggers you so hard. At least you can solo better!

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're attempts to make Shamans sound worse are painfully clear.

Oh it’s just funny when we expand the focus of the discussion now that we all agree (you included - your numbers) that shamans are objectively bad dps. Your only counter argument to date to make your case is that utility covers any gap somehow. But when you consider that, you’ve got 2 classes with objectively bad dps but one of them has a whole lot more actually useful stacking utility. Both of them have emergency healing that is more than adequate. Both can root to help cc.

The druid just offers more and if there’s an animal around to charm (there are TONS of locations from level 1-60 this is the case), the druid actually becomes a real dps class to boot. Oh, and the druid can actually get your 4 man group to where they want to hunt!

Isn’t it great when your own arguments get under

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Does it itch DSM?

[Troxx]

I’d honestly like to see a group of 4 mages go at it with shovels and earth pets and see how far they can go. My guess is straight to 60 rocking 4 earth pets and just summoning a new one any time one of the pets dies. Certain areas/camps would be tricky or need to be avoided outright due to adds etc but if the mages are smart and focus fire DD dps to burst down one mob at a time I’m pretty sure they could handle pulls of up to 4 at a time with no significant struggles. One earth buddy per mob … all 4 mages kablooie 1 mob at a time with nukes and roll the pets onto the remaining mobs.

Would be pretty efficient leveling if wager.

[PlsNoBan]

I think every single one of us can agree on one thing:

Poor Wizards. Brad really hated them.

[Troxx]

I think there was just massive oversight in the early expansions. Remember that early expansions came out pretty quickly. Later expansions moved aggressively to get things balanced. By later expansions wizards actually became the premier burst dps class with good to great sustained dps possibilities. I forget which expansion I finally stopped playing live during but at that time monks specifically and rogues were far and away in the worst spot.

Live never saw years and years of velious and a few years of kunark before that. Very few people proportionally saw level 60 before Luclin dropped. And only one guild I’m aware of was actually in VP before velious (Afterlife of Mithaniel Marr led by Hobben and Thot - my home server)

[Troxx]

For both classes the healing is redundant.

Druid nukes are objectively better than shaman nukes but both of them will put out comparatively poor dps.

For non-stacking utility and extras …

Shaman has malo and crap dps

Druid has snare, ports, evacs, animal charms, PoTG, damage shield, harmony … and crap dps

Can the druid also root rot in parallel to the group (if you really want to keep getting stupid lol?). Yep free clicky epic. Free clicky bracers. Practically irresistibly drones line too.

You won’t need either of them at 60 but the more we think about it the better the druid actually looks better simply due to PoTG. Certainly more useful than a crappy shaman pet and poor nuking dps. Druids don’t have canni but they do have extra stacking mana regen between mask of the hunter (lasts for hours) and PoTG … which incidentally gives an extra 24? Mana per tick to the entire group … that’s almost a canni IV passively spread around the group ever 3.5 ticks without any heath loss to heal back up. And it is spread around all 4 casters who use mana … not just one out of 4. A druid sittingdown meditating or standing with self is getting what … 9 more mana per tick passively? Every single tick regardless of spell casting or whatever else is going on.

Point is you’re wrong. At best shaman is tied for 4th place but realistically might just be 5th place out of 6.

[PlsNoBan]

Know what else druids can do that is often overlooked? They can keep charm pets perma snared which basically reduces risk to fucking zero. A non summoning snared charm pet breaking poses almost no risk whatsoever. This is easily better "safety" than anything a shaman provides for this group makeup.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I find it interesting you are trying so hard to talk up Druids simply because you cannot say anything good about Shamans, for fear of me being right.

Any class can work fine as the fourth member, Druid and Wizard included. But it is amusing to see you struggle to try and come up with why a Druid would be superior in a general sense.

You can get PoTG and ports from any outside Druid. Nobody has argued against people getting ports/buffs from people outside of the four man group (yet). I am sure that will probably happen now.

Snare isn't necessary. Enchanters solo perfectly fine using Charmed pets without it. When having two Enchanters and a Shaman Charm breaks are not an issue with the safety all three classes provide. I have never seen a group need snare for Charm safety.

Druid charming is restricted to specific zones, so it is going to be less useful overall, and you still have the same problem of having 3x Charmed pets, which is riskier. Just pick a third Enchanter at that point since you can charm everywhere.

Alternatively, you could pick a Shaman to open up camps that charming classes have problems with, while having more safety, great buffs, Malo, and DPS that will not impact your breakpoints.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find it interesting you are trying so hard to talk up Druids simply because you cannot say anything good about Shamans.

Does it get under

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?

As I have stated many times shamans are arguably tied for first as the single standalone best solo class in the game. Top 3 for standard groups. Top 2 for duos. Cleric/ench is best but cut out the enchanter and shaman can duo with pretty much anything to great effect. Sham + any melee (even rog let the sham tank. Sham plus any pet class. Heck even 2 shamans if you split the “extra” duties, rock 2 pets, stagger who casts what dots, etc.

Top tier for raids too.

They simply do not thrive in this theoretical group as well as others.

The fact that pointing this out irritates you so profusely is just the icing on the cake.

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does it get under

As I have stated many times shamans are arguably tied for first as the single standalone best solo class in the game. Top 3 for standard groups. Top 2 for duos. Top tier for raids too.

They simply do not thrive in this theoretical group as well as others.

The fact that pointing this out irritates you so profusely is just the icing on the cake.

I don't know why you think it bothers me, because nobody was seriously arguing for a druid until you got into the trolling phase where you care more about proving me wrong, rather than having a discussion.

I still find it amusing that Shamans are considered at the top of your list for everything except this thread. Interesting...