Raid Changes

[Flunklesnarkin]

Originally Posted by Aunt Bedelia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Looks like you know what you're talking about.

Nice way to have an opinion.

You don't have to have a professional degree in mmo's to have an opinion.

[Splorf22]

Look I don't want to get into some sort "TMO is a bunch of no-talent poopsockers" flamewar. IB and VD were doing the same thing last night. I'm just saying the more time I spend on this server, the more I realize this is a retarded way to compete for raid mobs.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look I don't want to get into some sort "TMO is a bunch of no-talent poopsockers" flamewar. IB and VD were doing the same thing last night. I'm just saying the more time I spend on this server, the more I realize this is a retarded way to compete for raid mobs.

Quit. It's not changing. Catching 365 people cheating via SEQ/MQ, many of them in raiding guilds, and still not addressing the incentive for people to cheat should make you think that maybe it's a bit fruitless, no? People used SEQ to track. It alerts you when the target spawns in the zone and it wakes you up with an alarm and it was being done for years. Who the hell wants to track for 4 days? In classic these mobs were on 2-day windows max, most of them even less.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not convinced.

Not a huge raider in eq.. actually never done it... but i don't see why camping raid targets should be changed because you dont want to actually spend the time to camp them.


It's simple imo.. if a group of people wants a raid target.. they log on in force and go to a spawn point and wait. Camping is always time consuming but if you really want the gear its worth it.

P99 actually seems to have a nice enforcement of camps thing going... but like i said i haven't raided yet.. idk how well they enforce raid camps or w/e.


Would be lame if one afk ranger could claim a "camp" while a group of people were there waiting for a monster.

the majority of the people that play on P99 are raiding in the top 3 guilds. These same people are forced to camp characters, can't really start alts and do groups and if they do, they might have to /q out the group because some random pop'd early in window. On any given week there is, at best, a 1-2day opening where either nothing or only 1 thing is in window.

Taking away the variance on raid mobs does more good than just for the raiding scene. More groups will happen at all levels, making the server population rise.

Making all the targets spawn at once = someone gets slightly bested on mobilization and immediately goes for the next best target. Instead of a race to FTE, it's a race to see who gets more. It happens every time. (obviously VP could be left out of this, or added I don't care)

The only thing it would do is stretch out the population and people would be able to play the game again who are raiding. It would probably bring some people back too, but who knows. Not to mention that bda/taken/div would probably be able to get in on targets as well.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main problem is, the majority of the people that play on P99 are raiding in the top 3 guilds.

That in itself is a huge problem and the windows have always played a huge role in that. It's also why the turnover rate for raiding guilds is so massive. Either you get targets regularly or you don't get them at all. People get bored in each of those scenarios. Those that have jobs and social lives can't compete with those that don't and it's been this way for a long while now

Frankly, you guys could complain bitch and moan all you want, the GMs don't care. It's been tried with a healthy server population where there were far more people playing and more scattered between guilds. Now you've got slipping numbers (people will walk away, epics won't make them come back permanently), velious a long long ways away and still the same shit.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That in itself is a huge problem and the windows have always played a huge role in that. It's also why the turnover rate for raiding guilds is so massive. Either you get targets regularly or you don't get them at all. People get bored in each of those scenarios. Those that have jobs and social lives can't compete with those that don't and it's been this way for a long while now

Frankly, you guys could complain bitch and moan all you want, the GMs don't care. It's been tried with a healthy server population where there were far more people playing and more scattered between guilds. Now you've got slipping numbers (people will walk away, epics won't make them come back permanently), velious a long long ways away and still the same shit.

Yeah, just taking away the variance won't solve the raiding problem or any problem really. Taking it away and having multiple targets spawn at once would solve the GMs and our problem.

Frankly, I don't care if they do or not. I didn't start this thread, I hate to group, I usually only log in to raid or talk to a few people and there isn't much happening at lower levels to even care.

I was just suggesting something to help them and the server out. This way you won't see the server go from 400 people to 600+ whenever something spawns and then after it's dead 5mins-15mins later the server go back down to 400 or less. Instead of camping characters out and waiting for a call, people will be able to play their mains that raid, or start alts and have more low end groups going for the new people that play.

By now, I've done enough of this variance crap to know what to do, which is do nothing but sit in a spot and chat on a character, or log him out and play something else. I'd like to start an alt and play, but then i couldn't raid well with how p99 has set it up. Someone's grand idea is just a retarded fix that actually helps the top end and completely destroys any casual guild. Maybe that is the way They want it tho.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the majority of the people that play on P99 are raiding in the top 3 guilds. These same people are forced to camp characters, can't really start alts and do groups and if they do, they might have to /q out the group because some random pop'd early in window. On any given week there is, at best, a 1-2day opening where either nothing or only 1 thing is in window.

Taking away the variance on raid mobs does more good than just for the raiding scene. More groups will happen at all levels, making the server population rise.

Making all the targets spawn at once = someone gets slightly bested on mobilization and immediately goes for the next best target. Instead of a race to FTE, it's a race to see who gets more. It happens every time. (obviously VP could be left out of this, or added I don't care)

The only thing it would do is stretch out the population and people would be able to play the game again who are raiding. It would probably bring some people back too, but who knows. Not to mention that bda/taken/div would probably be able to get in on targets as well.

I understand that.. and their choice is to camp world spawns instead of leveling alts or anything else.


and to play devil's advocate here... lets say all the monsters did spawn at the same time... when would the time be set for the spawn...

i can imagine epic Q.Qlery from people about which time zone it should be on.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand that.. and their choice is to camp world spawns instead of leveling alts or anything else.


and to play devil's advocate here... lets say all the monsters did spawn at the same time... when would the time be set for the spawn...

i can imagine epic Q.Qlery from people about which time zone it should be on.

You can't please everyone. I'm sure there is a time that could be selected by a public poll on p99 to get the majority of the people the time they want, or time frame.

If the votes are all high enough and spread out over a few hours, simple do a variance over those few hours, problem solved.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not convinced.

Not a huge raider in eq.. actually never done it... but i don't see why camping raid targets should be changed because you dont want to actually spend the time to camp them.


It's simple imo.. if a group of people wants a raid target.. they log on in force and go to a spawn point and wait. Camping is always time consuming but if you really want the gear its worth it.

P99 actually seems to have a nice enforcement of camps thing going... but like i said i haven't raided yet.. idk how well they enforce raid camps or w/e.


Would be lame if one afk ranger could claim a "camp" while a group of people were there waiting for a monster.

Flunkle, which do you really prefer:

Scenario A: Mobs have huge 4 day windows. At any given time, all the raid guilds have their mains camped out at KC/Ledge/whatever and trackers at the mobs in window. When the poor bored tracker finally announces a raid pop, they /q on their alts / abandon their friends/family / stop watching movies and log in. One or the other gets FTE as the other guilds are moving in their 30 people. Drama ensues.

Scenario B: All mobs pop at once. Everyone knows when the raid bonanza is going to start, so server population goes up to 800. Mobs pop, everyone goes crazy, if you lose FTE on one mob you immediately either go to the next one or pray the other guild wipes. IB/TMO/VD still get most of the targets due to having more people/being better organized, but with 15+ targets every week and 30+ on 3-day pop everyone gets something. The GMs know when they have to be on, and they only have to handle 1-2 disputes at the end when everyone gets down to the last few mobs. After "raid day" the server goes back to normal.

Does anyone in their right mind think A is better?

[Flunklesnarkin]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Flunkle, which do you really prefer:

Scenario A: Mobs have huge 4 day windows. At any given time, all the raid guilds have their mains camped out at KC/Ledge/whatever and trackers at the mobs in window. When the poor bored tracker finally announces a raid pop, they /q on their alts / abandon their friends/family / stop watching movies and log in. One or the other gets FTE as the other guilds are moving in their 30 people. Drama ensues.

Scenario B: All mobs pop at once. Everyone knows when the raid bonanza is going to start, so server population goes up to 800. Mobs pop, everyone goes crazy, if you lose FTE on one mob you immediately either go to the next one or pray the other guild wipes. IB/TMO/VD still get most of the targets due to having more people/being better organized, but with 15+ targets every week and 30+ on 3-day pop everyone gets something. The GMs know when they have to be on, and they only have to handle 1-2 disputes at the end when everyone gets down to the last few mobs. After "raid day" the server goes back to normal.

Does anyone in their right mind think A is better?

Call me crazy but i like the long camps.. it makes the reward more enjoyable to me.

Last mmo i played had a 6 month window monster.. it only spawned twice a year and not on a set timer.

Competition and camping makes the pixels valuable. If everybody could just click a zone instance and have the same gear it wouldn't be nearly as fun.


but either way.. i think there would be more drama caused with set spawns than the random spawns as it is. GM's would have every Q.Q raid /petition at once.