Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lor - what exactly do you think has been done to make enchanters stronger than they were on live? The most recent evidence (and pretty solid evidence, imo, which it sounds like you didn't look at because it's legit testing done not random zam anecdotes or cherry-picked lines about charm being dangerous) about charm durations in this thread suggest p99 charm strength is pretty close excepting perhaps charming MUCH lower-level mobs (which isn't what makes charm OP anyways).

And in a general "OP chanters are bad" sense, as someone else mentioned, the main changes towards unclassic mechanics have been done to ease CSR problems (raid timers and rotations, bards monopolizing zones, etc), not to address overall game balance (charm numba 1, class exp penalties ahead of timeline changes, monks in late velious, etc).

I think you're missing my point: what has been done to make Enchanters stronger than on live? In a sense, everything [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I mean by that is, there's no one thing I can point to. I don't know (and even with what limited evidence we have, let's be honest: you don't either) exactly how charm resists worked. No one has the formula. Nilbog had to make a judgement call, and pick some numbers, based on the limited evidence we have.

But then there's also the Mages not having spells thing. What does that have to do with Enchanter charming you ask? This game isn't "Enchanter SoloQuest": it's a MMOG. A world with twelve different classes of players all playing together.

Even if Nilbog got every last subjective decision about Enchanters 110% correct ... if he nerfs every other class on the server, then Enchanters will be unclassically powerful (while still being "100% classic"). Not because he got the Enchanter decisions wrong, and not even because he go the other decisions "wrong" either. Again, I think every decision he made was likely "right" by some very reasonable criteria.

But the net result is a server that doesn't look like live, and I think if anyone, even an Enchanter fan like yourself, takes a step back and looks at the situation honestly ... it's clearly apparent that something (probably many things, many totally reasonable and rational decisions) have resulted in Enchanters being clearly unclassic here. Again, not in an "X is wrong" way, but in a "if you played on live and are honest, you KNOW something isn't right" way.

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, not in an "X is wrong" way, but in a "if you played on live and are honest, you KNOW something isn't right" way.

The logs that were posted from classic resemble p1999 as much as possible.

I wish people would get infractions for posting this kind of pseudo-feedback. It is disruptive and needlessly takes time from staff.

Nilbog isn't here to please your "feels".

[loramin]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nilbog isn't here to please your "feels".

No, Nilbog is here to re-create classic EverQuest. And anyone being honest who played back then knows Enchanters here are nothing like they were on live: Nilbog is failing in some sense at re-creating classic EverQuest (and in all fairness, the guy has succeeded at umpteen million other decisions, so this is in no way a personal attack, just a "he's human" point).

It's exactly the same thing with Bards AoEing every mob in The Overthere. Every step, every last decision that Nilbog made which enabled it was absolutely 100% classic and correct ... but a single Bard making it impossible for anyone to get XP in the zone absolutely was not classic.

Even though Nilbog knew he'd made every decision about Bards correctly, he still took a step back and saw that something wasn't right. And that must have been incredibly difficult for him: no one is good at seeing their own mistakes, and if it wasn't for the massive CSR problem the Bards created, I'm not sure he even would have.

But he did! He realized something was missing, and it wasn't any individual game mechanic that he'd gotten wrong: it was that he hadn't considered how significant an "X factor" (1999 latency) was in making an emulated EverQuest server feel like a real EverQuest server.

Once he did, he emulated better. Even though he literally added an unclassic mechanic, the server felt far more classic as a result. Other than Bards who want to XP faster, I don't think anyone can argue the server would be more classic with AoE monopolies in OT.

Similarly, I don't think anyone can honestly argue that P99 really feels like 1999 when NO ONE remembers Enchanter charming being so prevalent, and basic logic dictates that it couldn't have been purely player ignorance.

[strawman]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nilbog isn't here to please your "feels".

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, Nilbog is here to re-create classic EverQuest.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BUT I FEEL LIKE ENCHANTERS ARE WRONG WAAAAA

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, Nilbog is here to re-create classic EverQuest. And anyone being honest who played back then knows Enchanters here are nothing like they were on live: Nilbog is failing in some sense at re-creating classic EverQuest (and in all fairness, the guy has succeeded at umpteen million other decisions, so this is in no way a personal attack, just a "he's human" point).

It's exactly the same thing with Bards AoEing every mob in The Overthere. Every step, every last decision that Nilbog made which enabled it was absolutely 100% classic and correct ... but a single Bard making it impossible for anyone to get XP in the zone absolutely was not classic.

Even though Nilbog knew he'd made every decision about Bards correctly, he still took a step back and saw that something wasn't right. And that must have been incredibly difficult for him: no one is good at seeing their own mistakes, and if it wasn't for the massive CSR problem the Bards created, I'm not sure he even would have.

But he did! He realized something was missing, and it wasn't any individual game mechanic that he'd gotten wrong: it was that he hadn't considered how significant an "X factor" (1999 latency) was in making an emulated EverQuest server feel like a real EverQuest server.

Once he did, he emulated better. Even though he literally added an unclassic mechanic, the server felt far more classic as a result. Other than Bards who want to XP faster, I don't think anyone can argue the server would be more classic with AoE monopolies in OT.

Similarly, I don't think anyone can honestly argue that P99 really feels like 1999 when NO ONE remembers Enchanter charming being so prevalent, and basic logic dictates that it couldn't have been purely player ignorance.

Respectfully, I'm somewhat amazed at how many gigantic lengthy replies you've written in this thread without actually presenting any evidence for anything. If the answer is evidence can't be found, then that's the end of the discussion.

[Mushman]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The logs that were posted from classic resemble p1999 as much as possible.

I wish people would get infractions for posting this kind of pseudo-feedback. It is disruptive and needlessly takes time from staff.

Nilbog isn't here to please your "feels".

People don't agree with me, they should be silenced?

Noone is being disruptive in sharing their opinion that power charm centric EQ isn't classic and takes away from the classic EQ experience.

Taking away time from staff something something Nilbog? It's like you'd say anything to make people speaking honestly go away. The staff is great and we're lucky to have them! Doesn't make charmed state of game classic.

[Danth]

I (still) can't lifetap raid bosses. Your classic arguments are invalid. Non-classic changes are made when the project admins deem it necessary. For folks who dislike current Enchanter power, continuing to visibly and loudy complain is the best way to eventually bring the admins around to such a change (ie, keep it up). As the recent experience with the pet window demonstrated, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Danth

[Dolalin]

There was another bug where charmed pets would sometimes attack your group members:

9/10/99

Furthermore, the charmed creatures will attack your party members
and they won't be able to hit back. You have to watch it like a hawk.
You will be able to stop the pet from attacking your buddies, but it
won't be like your normal animation pet in that you will have to keep
track of it.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....o/22VTCapUpg0J

Some of these things may go a way towards explaining why enchanters in early EQ didn't charm as much as they did later on.

[Bazia]

nerf encs im sick of seeing them everywhere, they also kinda make other pet classes look like a wet dog turd

stronger pet dps than a mage and 100x the utility

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Bazia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nerf encs im sick of seeing them everywhere

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