Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[nebulus]

What's stopping Divinity or any other guild from showing up at raid targets and competing for fte? I bet the top guilds would be more receptive to negotiations if more guilds made their presence felt.

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by nebulus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's stopping Divinity or any other guild from showing up at raid targets and competing for fte? I bet the top guilds would be more receptive to negotiations if more guilds made their presence felt.

Technically? Variance. Not a zerg guild. Not enough bought accounts to camp at a target's feet.
Morally? FTE snipe is not classic. It's only a way to bend the rules on this server. It's not raiding.

[xarzzardorn]

Loraen, believe it or not, new people join TMO all the time. You have spent this entire thread shitting on the people who sold you a VP key so that you could see VP or loot weapons with -1 delay or whatever. How would you like it if I told you you're a fucking idiot who starts a 1-man circlejerk every time you post? How many times can you charm a mob and pray until you get tired of it?

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by nebulus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's stopping Divinity or any other guild from showing up at raid targets and competing for fte? I bet the top guilds would be more receptive to negotiations if more guilds made their presence felt.

Because in recent history, before this thread was started, the big guilds leap-frogged and steamrolled Divinity when they were present.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by nebulus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's stopping Divinity or any other guild from showing up at raid targets and competing for fte? I bet the top guilds would be more receptive to negotiations if more guilds made their presence felt.

have you read RnF lately? Why would Div, BDA, or any other casual guild be a part of that shit?? BDA assumed that 2nd place role until FE formed and it's a nightmare. Competition consists of having your guild infiltrated with spies, RL pictures pilfered/posted for amusement and constant forum warfare and when you finally grow the guild, try to stick to your guns, play nice best you can, then you get to VP where you are trained into the ground.

It's never about just killing the mob, that's the easy part. The hard part is those 4am batphones, dealing with the constant spin/drama, logging in, pulling, killing through FTE shenanigans, trains, and anything else you can think of. You petition, nothing is done, the proof isn't concrete enough or you're told to fight fire with fire.

The template was laid with IB/TR or DA or whoever, then TMO, and now FE. If you want to see high end content on this server you need to track targets for 96+ hours at a time, be willing to log in at any time of the day, recruit anyone with a pulse to make sure you can pull 30-40 players at those odd times, and be mentally strong enough to take the constant abuse for trying to achieve those goals.

Now you tell me why those guilds should do that. We must not "want" it enough...

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by pharmakos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"To fight the Empire is to be infected by its derangement. This is a paradox; whoever defeats a segment of the Empire becomes the Empire; it proliferates like a virus, imposing its form on its enemies. Thereby it becomes its enemies.
-VALIS, Philip K Dick

not sure if srs, but your 100% right i think. whoever dethrones the #1 guild usually ends up doing the same thing that the #1 guild was doing.

Originally Posted by nebulus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's stopping Divinity or any other guild from showing up at raid targets and competing for fte? I bet the top guilds would be more receptive to negotiations if more guilds made their presence felt.

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

have you read RnF lately? Why would Div, BDA, or any other casual guild be a part of that shit??
Now you tell me why those guilds should do that.

um, because it's realistically the only shot those guilds have at forcing the big guilds into an agreement? not to mention is much easier and requires many less people than you seem to realize. at some point they need to make their presence felt, or they wont be taken seriously

Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You make an excellent point, Sirken. Variances are a necessary evil. That being said, you completely ignore the ills that come of the small-window variance we have here, and those ills seem to be what people are upset about rather than the variance itself.

If The longest possible window is 4-days, then the chance of an overlap is rather slim. In most cases, it's completely clear which mob we should be camping at and putting tracker priority on. If Trak is in window, camp at poop-ledge. If VS is in window and Trak is in window, stay at poop-ledge and move alts to VS. The max/min nature of players on this server will therefore inevitably be camped at mobs, and inevitably they'll get 90% of what spawns simply by virtue of them having the most trackers/most alts camped in the immediate vicinity. In this case, we're acting on best-odds, not our own priorities as players.

Now, lets say every target's window was exactly half of their total spawn timer (ex. Nagafen - 7 day spawn, 3.5day variance = 7 day window) then any target could spawn at any time. Trakanon could still be in window even if you killed him 5 minutes ago, and there would be no clear target to monopolize tracking time and alt-camping. FE and TMO would be unable to prioritize low-level dragon/god spawns and would be forced to focus on VP/Trak/VS. In this case, we're forced to focus on our priorities as players, rather than betting on a sure-thing, since there is no sure thing.

Inny would be spawning during legitimate hate clears and going to whatever guild is up there at the time. VS could be PUG'd by whoever is camping basement when he pops while TMO/FE run their alt army over. Gore could maul 500 passerby's moving from rings->KC before a raid guild even had any idea he was up. Who wouldn't want to play on that rule-set rather than this one? Doesn't that sound a bit more like classic to everyone?

The problem is not that variance exists.

The problem is not that players camp out at mobs they want.

The problem is that there's a period of time where we know what our best chance is, and we'd be morons for not taking the opportunity.

If there was no period of time when you had a best chance then I would actually be able to play my main instead of rotating him between camps.

well said sir. are variances perfect? absolutely not, and i think the staff has admitted this by making changes to the variance and how it works. and we'll continue to make tweaks as the staff feels is needed to ensure a successful and competitive future for the server.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

um, because it's realistically the only shot those have at forcing the big guilds into an agreement?

right. so if you have any sort of morale compass you need to leave that at the door if you want those pixels. I like being honorable, I sleep better at night because I remember there are people behind the pixels. TMO/FE don't seem to have any problem discarding their morality in the pursuit of pixels.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

right. so if you have any sort of morale compass you need to leave that at the door if you want those pixels. I like being honorable, I sleep better at night because I remember there are people behind the pixels. TMO/FE don't seem to have any problem discarding their morality in the pursuit of pixels.

um, are u trying to imply that its impossible to lock down mobs while maintaining honorable status? or are u saying that simply the guilds TMO and FE are without honor because of the WAY that THEY lock down mobs?

Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?

honestly, its the first time ive heard it. but to increase it's chances, i'd try to get in touch with nilbog or rogean via petition forum or irc or PM. as the decision makers probably wont be reading page 21 of a thread subject that has come up multiple times and generally recycles the same exact stuff from the previously similar threads

[Aaryonar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well said sir. are variances perfect? absolutely not, and i think the staff has admitted this by making changes to the variance and how it works. and we'll continue to make tweaks as the staff feels is needed to ensure a successful and competitive future for the server.

Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?

Also, if there are changes to the variance in the future, can you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE not let us know any specifics? The most recent change to variance would have literally blown this raid-scene up bigtime if the exact equation for it wasn't detailed in the announcement post. I don't want to know when a dragon might spawn. It would be a nicer surprise.

[Emphase]

Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?.

I like your idea a lot, it did remind me of live actually. I've ran through DL a few times and almost ran right into Gorenaire in the process. I agree with 100% variance. maybe some day it will get a shot and we will see it on this server