Americans and Guns (post pics of your armory !)

[Snagglepuss]

The liberal media is out to destroy the conservative way of life with their for-profit structure, predominantly middle-class viewership, and government autonomous operation!

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Harmonium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please refer to my previous post for some statistics behind gun violence.

Originally Posted by Harmonium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In fact, homicide, assault, rape, and robbery are dramatically lower in areas of the United States where the public is allowed easy access to carrying concealed firearms in public.

That's because the types of places that start adopting concealed carry laws and gun restrictions are also the types of places that have high rates of homicide, assault, rape, and robbery.

And you are using statistics from a self-report survey, the National Self Defense Survey? You know how many biases are tainting that data? You may not be aware of this, but the field of Criminology has a relatively low level scientific integrity compared to other fields. You have to be very careful about your sources in this area.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would call you out for straw manning it, but you even failed at that. You just sound like an idiot. Refute his point head on (Despots demanding relinquish guns prior to atrocities committed) not make a stupid analogy about wearing shoes.

Aw shit I got called out for strawmanning a stupid analogy for quoting...... a strawmanned stupid analogy.

Are you seriously implying our current political culture has ANY relevance to those authoritarian regimes? The argument at hand is: "Constitutional Republic with a cultural heritage of respect for the common law tradition placing restrictions on gun ownership", it's not some link in a chain leading to to a police state you fucking survivalist moron.

[Harmonium]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only gun-restrictive measure that took effect while Hitler was in power dealt with Jews and non-citizens.

So how did that work out for them?

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Harmonium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how did that work out for them?

If the jews had guns they totally would have been able to defend themsleves from the waffen SS, amirite? Just like how if every American was packing a glock we'd totally be able to counter a monopoly of force by the single most powerful military machine in human history. Most American civilians are overweight or obese.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Harmonium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So how did that work out for them?

Pretty much the same as it would've worked out for them if that law never was passed, seeing as how they had started building concentration camps in 1933, revoked Jewish citizenship in 1935, banned Jews from professional labor in 1936, instigated forced segregation in 1936 and 1937, and didn't pass the gun laws until 1938.

Try another door.

[Turp]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of those people were men, I suppose everything about men is wrong as well? I suppose they all also wore shoes. That makes about as much sense as your shitty analogy, and it does nothing to speak of the facts and statistics behind gun violence.

Lol in your retard logic Guns kill people? not People kill people?, so in that analogy we should ban all cars because there are more car deaths every year than Guns. You obviously get your news from the TV with that famous Quote "Gun Violence", to try an tie guns with only violence, you dont hear about all the people saved from having a gun, noo they dont report on that. Thats like saying Car violence, them damn cars killing everyone, or how about a bee violence? hundreds die a year from bee stings maybe we should ban the bees! get real lol, North Korea would be perfect for you.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Turp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol in your retard logic Guns kill people? not People kill people?, so in that analogy we should ban all cars because there are more car deaths every year than Guns. You obviously get your news from the TV with that famous Quote "Gun Violence", to try an tie guns with only violence, you dont hear about all the people saved from having a gun, noo they dont report on that. Thats like saying Car violence, them damn cars killing everyone, or how about a bee violence? hundreds die a year from bee stings maybe we should ban the bees! get real lol, North Korea would be perfect for you.

I submit Exhibit A for why the average American should not be allowed to own a firearm. Or, apparently, a bee.

[Kraftwerk]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aw shit I got called out for strawmanning a stupid analogy for quoting...... a strawmanned stupid analogy.

Are you seriously implying our current political culture has ANY relevance to those authoritarian regimes? The argument at hand is: "Constitutional Republic with a cultural heritage of respect for the common law tradition placing restrictions on gun ownership", it's not some link in a chain leading to to a police state you fucking survivalist moron.

You sound slightly mad. Are you mad?

[Harmonium]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's because the types of places that start adopting concealed carry laws and gun restrictions are also the types of places that have high rates of homicide, assault, rape, and robbery.

So.. your saying that places with high rates of homicide, assault, rape, and robbery that allow their law abiding citizens to conceal carry see a drastic reduction in said crimes? This is a good thing, no?

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you are using statistics from a self-report survey, the National Self Defense Survey? You know how many biases are tainting that data? You may not be aware of this, but the field of Criminology has a relatively low level scientific integrity compared to other fields. You have to be very careful about your sources in this area.

Previous statistic sources (posted again for your pleasure)

Source: U.S. Department of Justice
Source: Northwestern University School of Law
Source: University of Chicago Law School
Source: The American Journal of Psychiatry March
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Gun control activists were unhappy with the National Self Defense Survey's results, which show that "Every 13 seconds an American gun owner uses a firearm in defense against a criminal."

In a 1994 TV news taping, Handgun Control, Inc.’s, spokesman, Sandy Cooney, called the National Self Defense Survey “obscene” and threw ad hominem slurs at its lead researcher, professor of criminology, Dr. Gary Kleck. Since Kleck is an impartial social scientist with no links to gun advocates or manufacturers — in fact he’s a liberal Democrat — it appears that Kleck’s only sin was doing research which produced results that challenged the gun-control agenda of Handgun Control, Inc., the "Million" Moms, and similar organizations.

So, to refute the results of the National Self Defense Survey, two pro-gun-control researchers, Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig, were given funding by the Clinton administration's Department of Justice to do their own survey of Defensive Gun Uses, to attempt to prove that the National Self Defense Survey's estimate was too high.

Unfortunately for advocates of gun control, the Cook-Ludwig survey produced results about the same as the National Self Defense Survey and -- in one remarkable paragraph -- suggested that their methodology was too conservative and that the Defensive Gun Use figure could even be doubled:

"Because respondents were asked to describe only their most recent defensive gun use, our comparisons are conservative, as they assume only one defensive gun use per defender. ...Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs."

Source: The National Institute of Justice, in its survey Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms by Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig.