Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jumps are meaningless in minute(s)-long races. Stunningly could give me 5 second head start, but if I don’t know the lines, I’m done.

this is undeniably false. the jump is the race. KT race is well under 60 seconds, it's a sprint. Anyone who's practiced even a little bit can run from the race line to the throne room in under 55 seconds, and it's factioned the whole way so there's no variables to worry about. the idea that you could make up a 5 second deficit in such a short race is absurd, and anyone who has practiced or actually raced knows it. you're embarrassing yourself.

[Nibblewitz]

Croco realized that racers practice their jumps and are not scripting. All we are talking about is scripting the initial step. Show me a script of the essential part of the race, or scripting races isn’t a legitimate concern.

[Nibblewitz]

That’s why we are looking at 2 months of someone’s work after GMs dismissed it 3 months ago.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

your refusal to actually engage with the critique on a substantive level speaks volumes about the weakness of your position. putting words in someone else's mouth so that you can strawman them is pretty rude, as well.

I haven't refused anything. My stance is clear and transparent. You keep ignoring it because you have no counter argument. Instead you're insulting me and pretending like I have nothing of value to add, which is actually quite hypocritical of you.

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ockouts in ToV were done away with years before Riot was a guild, what does that have to do with anything?

I don't know, who brought up lockouts?

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kickent and Joria have demonstrated that anyone who wants to can easily cheat FTE footraces, and GM's are apparently unable to detect it enough to prevent it. That means at any given time, one or more racers could be cheating

So Riot cheats, admits to it, provides evidence of it, shares directions with the whole server on how to cheat, and what? No penalty? Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here or Riot would have a raid ban by now. I'd stop nothing short of a death sentence.

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you intend to defend this system, you have to come up with a compelling argument explaining why, in light of the fact that the races are so easily cheated, we should still have faith in a footrace as a fair contest to determine who wins FTE. Insulting other people and just saying "nuh uh" isn't going to cut it.

I'm not defending the system. Who is making up strawmen now? This post was libel against Vanquish racers. The accusations are baseless and proven so because not a single one of you has any answer for the holes that are poked in the theories present in the video. Yet you keep posting and moving goal posts.

There are better ways to get rules changed. But you've never had to deal with this:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Riot is once again showing their true colors in this thread with their "rules for thee not for me" gotchas.

And just like the Tunare restrictions, Vanquish continues to persevere. Instead of crying about the Tunare rules change, they hunkered down and now do a full PoG clear in about 2 hours under optimal circumstances.

Quit playing the victim and start playing the game.

[Ringi]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... I have nothing of value to add ...

Correct

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here

From reading your posts this is probably the truest statement in the entire thread.

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't refused anything. My stance is clear and transparent. You keep ignoring it because you have no counter argument. Instead you're insulting me and pretending like I have nothing of value to add, which is actually quite hypocritical of you.

Yes, you have refused to engage with this critique on a substantive level, preferring rather to offer nothing but denial, and personal attack. It's not my fault you argue the way you do.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know, who brought up lockouts?

Uh, you did?

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So Riot cheats, admits to it, provides evidence of it, shares directions with the whole server on how to cheat, and what? No penalty? Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here or Riot would have a raid ban by now. I'd stop nothing short of a death sentence.

This is the sort of thing I've reference above - in any event, I think I speak for most people when I thank whatever powers that be that Samhot isn't a GM.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not defending the system. Who is making up strawmen now? This post was libel against Vanquish racers. The accusations are baseless and proven so because not a single one of you has any answer for the holes that are poked in the theories present in the video. Yet you keep posting and moving goal posts.

You are very much defending the status quo, else why go to so much trouble to (try, fruitlessly) rebut the OP? Forget Vanquish, forget Stunningly, forget Riot. This isn't about an

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are better ways to get rules changed. But you've never had to deal with this:

Riot is once again showing their true colors in this thread with their "rules for thee not for me" gotchas.

And just like the Tunare restrictions, Vanquish continues to persevere. Instead of crying about the Tunare rules change, they hunkered down and now do a full PoG clear in about 2 hours under optimal circumstances.

Quit playing the victim and start playing the game.

Forget Vanquish, forget Stunningly, forget Riot and everyone else. You're still doing the thing I pointed out initially - conflating the question of "does Stunningly cheat?" with the other, more important question "is it possible to cheat?" Yes, it is possible and apparently very easy to do. That by itself is enough to call into question the legitimacy of footraces with a /random as the start condition.

If you want to have this conversation, you must be able to answer the following question: why should anyone have any faith in a system of competition which is, demonstrably, so easy to cheat? If all you're going to do is say "nuh uh" then we might as well call it a thread.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Forget Vanquish, forget Stunningly, forget Riot and everyone else. You're still doing the thing I pointed out initially - conflating the question of "does Stunningly cheat?" with the other, more important question "is it possible to cheat?" Yes, it is possible and apparently very easy to do. That by itself is enough to call into question the legitimacy of footraces with a /random as the start condition.

This is the root of your whole problem. You're pretending like these are the same question and that the answer to one positively answers the other. Nobody is questioning whether or not it is possible to cheat, but that's not the question asked in the video, is it?

I have yet to see anybody from Riot proposing changes to foot races in the proper channels, and if they did so, they would promptly be shot down (and rightfully so) based on Riot's own former precedent.

My guess is that you see the cheating angle as a way to automatically get the changes you want. It's too bad the GMs saw right through your scam.

Btw, Nibblewitz brought up lockouts. Not me.

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the root of your whole problem. You're pretending like these are the same question and that the answer to one positively answers the other. Nobody is questioning whether or not it is possible to cheat, but that's not the question asked in the video, is it?

I'm explicitly stating that these are two different questions raised by the OP's video, and have repeatedly said that the questions about Stunningly the individual are not especially meaningful as compared to the questions about cheating in races, generally. I don't really care, ultimately, if Stunningly is scripting his race starts or not (although, as stated, i find the evidence in favor of him doing that to be persuasive). I'm more concerned about how we can have any faith in footraces as a fair metric for competing for FTE now. We can't, because as Kickenit and Joria have shown, it is very easy to cheat. Nobody is questioning that it's possible to cheat - in other words, you agree that cheating at footraces is both possible and very easy to do?

[QUOTE=Samoht;3421020]I have yet to see anybody from Riot proposing changes to foot races in the proper channels, and if they did so, they would promptly be shot down (and rightfully so) based on Riot's own former precedent.[/QUOTE=Samoht]

OP stated he sent this all to the GM's months ago. What other channels would be "proper" in your view, and had this been raised in those channels would your opinion change? This feels like a meaningless deflection. Why should "Riot's own former precedent" determine whether or not the GM's change the ruleset?

[QUOTE=Samoht;3421020]My guess is that you see the cheating angle as a way to automatically get the changes you want. It's too bad the GMs saw right through your scam.[QUOTE=Samoht]

More strawmanning and and personal attacks. You acknowledge above that cheating is possible, so what is the scam exactly? Why can't you just engage with this subject honestly? (that's a rhetorical question, I understand why you won't).

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Btw, Nibblewitz brought up lockouts. Not me.

ok?

[titanshub]

[QUOTE=xdrcfrx;3421029]I'm explicitly stating that these are two different questions raised by the OP's video, and have repeatedly said that the questions about Stunningly the individual are not especially meaningful as compared to the questions about cheating in races, generally. I don't really care, ultimately, if Stunningly is scripting his race starts or not (although, as stated, i find the evidence in favor of him doing that to be persuasive). I'm more concerned about how we can have any faith in footraces as a fair metric for competing for FTE now. We can't, because as Kickenit and Joria have shown, it is very easy to cheat. Nobody is questioning that it's possible to cheat - in other words, you agree that cheating at footraces is both possible and very easy to do?

[QUOTE=Samoht;3421020]I have yet to see anybody from Riot proposing changes to foot races in the proper channels, and if they did so, they would promptly be shot down (and rightfully so) based on Riot's own former precedent.[/QUOTE=Samoht]

OP stated he sent this all to the GM's months ago. What other channels would be "proper" in your view, and had this been raised in those channels would your opinion change? This feels like a meaningless deflection. Why should "Riot's own former precedent" determine whether or not the GM's change the ruleset?

[QUOTE=Samoht;3421020]My guess is that you see the cheating angle as a way to automatically get the changes you want. It's too bad the GMs saw right through your scam.

Originally Posted by Samoht

More strawmanning and and personal attacks. You acknowledge above that cheating is possible, so what is the scam exactly? Why can't you just engage with this subject honestly? (that's a rhetorical question, I understand why you won't).



ok?

Lockouts and foot races make the cheating even more problematic. It would then effect every raid encounter instead of a few.