System rotation target ?

[Aadill]

Thinking about a recent Innoruuk kill might clue some insight into what to expect - one guild gets FTE, wipes, and the next guild that attempted FTE (or a random guild that attempted FTE) gets agro and finishes the mob off because it never resets. Does a GM then transfer loot? Does the guild decide to give it back? Is that even an expectation? This is lessened by actual competition for even being ready for the mob, whereas a static timed mob would have a lot of these issues. That is the single and largest issue that results from the proposed and why no one here is agreeing to it.. it's more work.

[Skope]

You don't want a clusterfuck? I don't want a hybrid XP penalty. Unfortunately both are classic and what you "want" doesn't compare to what "makes sense." These two are very different statements of which only the latter can be reached by being impartial and unbiased. The one prior is the epitome of bias.

Furthermore, there are ways to get by the training, the kill stealing and generally antisocial behavior that people turn to when somebody takes their pixels. One of those I've proposed already -- be stiffer with the bans. The GMs have ways of finding out just who aggros a mob first and it's been used on this server, a mere /shout would simply let everyone else know. You've got your true FTE.

What would prevent a guild from poopsocking the spawn? make it an hour window. Let 15 guilds sit there the entire time, you shouldn't be dictating who gets a shot anyway -- trakanon does.

It's FTE anyway, phisting. Luck determines who gets it now and it's determined it in original everquest as well. You're creating your own unnecessary problems by stretching the luck to 4 days, weeding out people that the original everquest never did. Let the dragons and community sort it out, not some dumbass mechanic.

Aadill, if you help them kill it then they can thank you. If it aggros you after they're dead then it's yours. What complications?

[baalzy]

If variance is eliminated guilds will be forced to prioritize much of the time on which mobs they want.

The reason being this: No guild is capable of killing Sev/Tal/Gore/Trak/Nag/Vox/CT/Inny/Draco/VS all at the same time. However, there are enough raid capable guilds to engage and kill all those targets at nearly the same time.

If variance is eliminated, much of the time these mobs will all end up dieing withing 20-30 minutes of each other as different guilds will be in position to take them out when they spawn. So while everyone knows when the mobs will spawn, if they're all spawning near enough to each other then guilds will have to prioritize on which mobs they want/need the most.

I know currently TR dominates on full server repops via mobilization & ability when it comes to the Kunark dragons, and they also get a large number of planar pops on these days because they use tactics that are effective, if somewhat douchey when you consider that someone else was up working their way to the mob 20min before you entered the zone. But thats something that the guild should work out amongst themselves.

But this is largely because they're able to be mobilized quickly. If variance were gone, then after the initial scuffle after a patch, everyone now knows when a mob will be popping and can position at what they prioritize on.

TR wants their Trak teeth & Kunark BPs? Well, they're going to be there. Do they also want their Kunark pants? They'll probably be at VS too. Are they also going to be sitting in EJ, SF, DL, SolB, Perma? Probably not. This would leave it up to the individual guilds to decide on what they want to do. Do they compete for Trak or settle for Naggy?

It's not perfect, Time-Of-Death will slide and some encounters will start repopping later compared to others over-time. If the GMs commited to a reboot cycle every 5-8 weeks regardless of patch status just to reset the times this would reset the cycles and start the competition all over again.

Will there be issues with multiple guilds sitting at an individual camp waiting for a repop? Yes. Will the server be dominated by one or two guilds that are big enough and mobile enough to dominate the majority of raid content? Probably not. Will those guilds get the more sought after targets? Probably. Will smaller guilds have chances at old-world raid mobs? Probably a better chance then they do now.

And just for the record, at the moment I'm fine with variance, but I also wouldn't have a problem with removing it.

[Skope]

Refer to baalzy, apparently someone that actually raided during classic.

After a while, you got tiered progression. Some guilds would prioritize trak whereas other guilds would hit VP. Some would cockblock trak and others knew that so they hit VS. Welcome to everquest.

[Skope]

Asher, they were also a small guild that locked recruiting for damn near their entire duration on the server. Had they played here they'd have no shot because of variance. I played WoW beta with a couple of them, and they were good people.

And yes, statis/PDF were assholes =P

[Aadill]

The complications I am referring to is the recent incident apparently involving Divinity, TMO, and TR. This is second hand information but apparently TMO wiped and Divniity got the kill after doing 11% of damage because they had attempted to FTE but lost, yet still maintained agro. If it was the opposite and Divinity DID have FTE and TMO engaged and still wiped, that's one thing. It's also another if Divinity returned the loot to TMO or waited for the mob to reset, but that is just one instance that will occur every time a guild that gets FTE and doesn't get the kill will go through.

No mobs are currently spawning at the same time EXCEPT on server ups, so the idea of prioritization is moot, because mobs still regularly spawn in between server ups and eventually timers will be shifted outwards as mobs are slowly killed, shifting hours, which is enough time for a guild to remobilize and force the same situation as it is currently - 1 or 2 guilds receiving the majority of the kills. We don't have enough server repops to keep the timers simultaneous. The idea of committing to a planned server repop has been discussed before and was never something that the staff indicated as something they would pursue. You can easily cry foul in those instances, and it forces the GMs to keep up with it.

Everyone against variance has been hinging on the fact that somehow the guilds that immediately drop groups, hammer/gate/get ported to a raid zone and run to the raid mob within the first 10 minutes that it spawns are somehow not inclined to take the rest of the mobs as well. There is no tiered progression on this server until level limits are introduced or a server repop occurs, which is rare.


I think the main issue that I have here is that the majority of this was discussed and turned down by the playerbase/staff already (or some things were never implemented). I'd suggest revisiting the original threads and pulling from there. At this point, no one is standing on the platform of "keep it classic," though.

[Trimm]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The complications I am referring to is the recent incident apparently involving Divinity, TMO, and TR. This is second hand information but apparently TMO wiped and Divniity got the kill after doing 11% of damage because they had attempted to FTE but lost, yet still maintained agro. If it was the opposite and Divinity DID have FTE and TMO engaged and still wiped, that's one thing. It's also another if Divinity returned the loot to TMO or waited for the mob to reset, but that is just one instance that will occur every time a guild that gets FTE and doesn't get the kill will go through.
.

I'll address this one because it seems to come up every once in a while. TMO got the first attempt in and claims to be trained, and got Inno to 11% before they wiped and FD'd. Inno then aggroed our raid and didn't reset, so we killed him. That's all that happened. Any other guild would have done the same. We're not going to sit there and let Inno wipe just because he didn't 'reset' yet.

Skope has his own ideas and opinions about the server and raid scene. As stated before, many people in Div disagree with him and most everyone doesn't have a problem with raiding on this server. If this is a personal crusade he wants to continue, more power to him.

[Skope]

You have tiered progression as soon as trak dies and VP keys are dropping. Kunark introduced tiered progression.

There is a mighty difference between an hour variance and 96. It's actually exactly 95 hours. Furthermore, for the 1 hour variance to reach anywhere near that 96 hour window would require either 6 months of not a single patch or Nilbog/Rogean to look over the variance code because something would clearly be broken. With an hour window things will pretty much be spawning at ~ the same time frame. There will be deviations, but that actually encourages mobilization and tracking but not to this ridiculous extent. Get in, drop it, port out and track to see what's still up.

I repeat, the only reason it's here now is ease the pressure on GMs/Devs. There are clearly other ways to go about that that won't rape classic EQ raiding. Don't forget it was this same argument that people defending poopsocking were making against FTE... How'd that end up, btw?

[baalzy]

I'll just say this.

In live classic the servers went down regularly for patches, every couple of weeks. Due to slower development time that isn't always the case on P99.

Having the devs do a server reboot (so everyone is kicked out of game regardless) after it's been up uninterrupted for a while would SIMULATE the classic experience.

These server reboots then reset the playing field. It's not going to be perfect, nothing is, but the big reason why people are arguing for a rotation system or SOMETHING is to allow smaller guilds a chance at mobs by forcing guilds to prioritize somewhat. If those smaller guilds aren't strong enough to kill Naggy within 5-10 min of its pop and after 4-5 weeks his repop is stretched out to the point where TR can kill Trak and then make it to Naggy and kill him too? If it gets to the point where TR can time and hop to every single raid mob because of the spread in repop times? Good for them, that is competition and means that they're that awesome and its everybody elses fault for not being good enough to kill their targets fast enough to prevent this.

But, eventually the server will reboot and the playing field is leveled again.

[Skope]

That ^^, btw, was how you got tiered guilds. Not because some assholes are willing to waste 4 days alt-tabbing.

After a while smaller or not-as-skilled guilds would look for easier targets to down whereas the big boys went after the big targets and went out hunting for the other pieces that others (or everyone) left behind.