First to Engage: Exploiting the mechanic?

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You think it is a lack of gear that is preventing other guilds from beating raid encounters on this server?

Might not be the case now, but in Velious I could see it happening somewhat.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what was said about Kunark. Now, say hello to the new and improved extra long variance mechanic!

Velious raid mobs are almost exactly the same as Kunark raid mobs.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The issue with everything is that people cannot act like civilized adults. Let's look at BDA's Vox kill yesterday as a simple example.

We (BDA) were first on the scene and began the civilized process of clearing towards Vox. TMO shows up, leapfrogs our raid force, trains everything before Vox + plus her lair out and onto our force and immediately engages Vox. We were forced to camp out our raid force and TMO wiped to adds or something. We recovered from our partial wipe and beat the dragon. I don't really care if TMO's train out strat was "accidentally" dropped on our force or as they would obviously claim we shouldn't have been in their way.

So how do you stop that behavior with rule implementation? We managed to persevere through this round of bullshit, but for every one minor raid kill we get there's another 10 incidents where this exact same type of thing happens. We need rules to address that type of behavior, the attitude that as long as the mob is alive a guild can/will do anything possible to score the kill. The punishments are not severe enough to deter the behavior. Even if we caught the accidental train red handed with some 1080p fraps and two forms of ID that one alt might get suspended for a week, it doesn't stop the machine.

We need some type of play nice policy and we need it enforced. The current mindset is "do whatever it takes" and I've even told by staff numerous times that if we don't like what TMO does to us then we should do it right back to them. Some of us want to maintain some sense of decency and decorum. We shouldn't have to lie/cheat/steal/train and pretend it's tantamount to competition. Knowing how to dodge enemy trains (in places where it's actually illegal no less) shouldn't be a condition of raiding on this server.

I don't want to poopsock, I don't even want a rotation at this point (although I see nothing wrong with it) I only want to be able to engage a target without getting trained EVERY single time. This is possible, but TMO would actually have to act like adults. Every other guild has said at one point or another that they would agree to some simple rules of engagement but TMO refuses. 10% of the server population is dictating how raiding is to be done by everyone else. We've seen Divinity move on Dojo and given them some space to make an engage, or even when it was other guilds banding together to take a shot at Naggy we didn't immediately go to leapfrog and train giants out and OOPS sorry we didn't mean to train your raid accidentally because we desperately needed FTE.

There's nothing wrong with treating others like humans and trying to show some fucking decency.

And yet BDA is not against doing this and worse to others. Example: Ragefire few nights back Nizzler and I are buffing up to hand in pearl to ragefire. BDA monk trains FGs on us gets us killed. As we are rezzing up bout two grousp of BDA show up, another monk (Pullyn or something?) trains in more FGs and kills us again (this is BDA wiping us twice now to trains in an attempt to leapfrog us). So BDA rushes a pearl hand in and wipes to ragefire and even more fire giants. Having lost their claim to a mob since they wiped and its been some time since the spawn we engage human form ragefire. BDA then jumps in to KS once he is at ~70% effectively committing raid interference by spawning the dragon on us and KSing human form. But not to worry, BDA wipes YET AGAIN and us in the process. We recover, pull dragon form, kill before they can recover for the win.

Point being after training twice, kill stealing, raid interfering, and shit talking, BDA thinks they have done nothing wrong and have been wronged in the process. You should know this Chest you were there. Sorry guys but for people I used to roll with you sure show no respect. The kicker here is that I have fraps of the whole thing.

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And yet BDA is not against doing this and worse to others. Example: Ragefire few nights back Nizzler and I are buffing up to hand in pearl to ragefire. BDA monk trains FGs on us gets us killed. As we are rezzing up bout two grousp of BDA show up, another monk (Pullyn or something?) trains in more FGs and kills us again (this is BDA wiping us twice now to trains in an attempt to leapfrog us). So BDA rushes a pearl hand in and wipes to ragefire and even more fire giants. Having lost their claim to a mob since they wiped and its been some time since the spawn we engage human form ragefire. BDA then jumps in to KS once he is at ~70% effectively committing raid interference by spawning the dragon on us and KSing human form. But not to worry, BDA wipes YET AGAIN and us in the process. We recover, pull dragon form, kill before they can recover for the win.

Point being after training twice, kill stealing, raid interfering, and shit talking, BDA thinks they have done nothing wrong and have been wronged in the process. Sorry guys but for people I used to roll with you sure show no respect. The kicker here is that I have fraps of the whole thing.

It's called fighting fire with fire.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Itap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's called fighting fire with fire.

All I'm getting is that to be a guild leader/raid leader/officer on p1999 is to be a tool.

Why does every thread degenerate into this bickering shite? (no need to answer that)

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Velious raid mobs are almost exactly the same as Kunark raid mobs.

Flurry, rampage, 10x to 20x more HP, ya almost exactly...

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All I'm getting is that to be a guild leader/raid leader/officer on p1999 is to be a tool.

Why does every thread degenerate into this bickering shite? (no need to answer that)

Three words, The Mystical Order.

[arsenalpow]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole. To top it all off

[Wed Oct 30 16:38:28 2013] You say out of character, 'ascention, that is not yer mob to engage'
[Wed Oct 30 16:38:49 2013] You told ascention, 'wut are u doing old friend'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:00 2013] Ascention tells you, 'whose perl got handed in?'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:04 2013] You told Ascention, 'contemptor'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:20 2013] You told Ascention, 'we had a 20 min timer going, its not up'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:29 2013] Ascention tells you, 'oh'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:37 2013] You told Ascention, 'raid interference, not to mention being the worst '
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:41 2013] You told Ascention, 'jesus man'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:47 2013] You told Ascention, 'dont let tmo corrupt u'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:05 2013] You told Ascention, 'turn attack off'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:29 2013] You say out of character, 'u trained hte lair with FGs'
[Wed Oct 30 16:47:49 2013] You told Ascention, 'well for what its worth, you have sunk to the lowest of the low '
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:36 2013] Ascention tells you, 'just doing what im told'
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:48 2013] Ascention tells you, 'we were there first and trained by a bda monk for the record'
[Wed Oct 30 17:38:56 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'Im not gonna lie I do feel a little bit bad for the way things went down'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:10 2013] You told Grundlegore, 'dont ever talk to me again after that'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:52 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'aight man, but from my experience shit went down the same way when I was in bda, I just feel bad now cause it was you guys'

Don't fucking play the victim, you didn't even know what happened. Have fun being a mindless soldier in TMO.

[Orruar]

2 giants wipe a raid? you all need a visit from dr. turgur

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2 giants wipe a raid? you all need a visit from dr. turgur

Like 5 or 6 of us, to just Ascention and Nizzler who duo'd it.