Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please explain the other benefits of DPS.

Are you really suggesting you place 0 value on DPS that isn't enough to gain an extra spawn? You're taking the paladin over the rogue when you already have heals and a tank? Just so you have redundant paladin heals? The rogue isn't getting you another PH why bother?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you really suggesting you place 0 value on DPS that isn't enough to gain an extra spawn? You're taking the paladin over the rogue when you already have heals and a tank? Just so you have redundant paladin heals? The rogue isn't getting you another PH why bother?

You didn't answer the question. What do you think you are gaining? If you kill 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Shaman, and 20 mobs in 30 minutes with the Mage, you are in the exact same position.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You didn't answer the question. What do you think you are gaining? If you kill 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Shaman, and 20 mobs in 30 minutes with the Mage, you are in the exact same position.

1: Depending on the camp. There are often more mobs that can be pulled for additional buffer xp (if needed) or just extra random coin/loot and to just keep playing the game and killing stuff.

2: If there aren't enough spawns to keep you busy. Higher DPS allows you to kill through your available mobs quicker then everyone gets a longer AFK break til respawns start happening.

Literally your entire argument banks on groups sucking and needing your extra heals to prevent wipes. What is to be gained by a shaman casting torpor on full HP players? Or on charm pets and slowing their attack speed when a cleric can just CH them? There is no other reason to bring a shaman in this group comp over mage/necro/another enchanter. DPS doesn't become irrelevant just because its not enough to get more PH's. It takes an insane amount of additional DPS to make that happen with how long the respawns are in this game. That's a dishonest argument at absolute best.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1: Depending on the camp. There are often more mobs that can be pulled for additional buffer xp (if needed) or just extra random coin/loot and to just keep playing the game and killing stuff.

2: If there aren't enough spawns to keep you busy. Higher DPS allows you to kill through your available mobs quicker then everyone gets a longer AFK break til respawns start happening.

Literally your entire argument banks on groups sucking and needing your extra heals to prevent wipes. What is to be gained by a shaman casting torpor on full HP players? Or on charm pets and slowing their attack speed when a cleric can just CH them? There is no other reason to bring a shaman in this group comp over mage/necro/another enchanter. DPS doesn't become irrelevant just because its not enough to get more PH's. It takes an insane amount of additional DPS to make that happen with how long the respawns are in this game. That's a dishonest argument at absolute best.

1. Saving 4 seconds per kill still won't matter here. Most of the time wasted at that point is pull time or travel time.

2. You are seriously suggesting saving 9 seconds at a camp like Fungi King will make a difference to people who want to AFK between spawns? You must really know how to maximize every second of your life.

When DPS is giving you nothing, having more options is better, even if you think you won't use it. Something is better than nothing.

DPS is irrelevant once you can't get more kills per hour within your gaming session. Respawn timers are the bottleneck. You would be correct that DPS would help more if mobs respawned every minute, or you could trigger the spawns consistently. Platehouse is the only example I can think of, but there you want a Shaman to Malo/Slow the last cycle of mobs, they hit hard and are pretty resistant. They also have enough HP to be fully DoTed.

PS: You do get more kills per hour by increasing DPS. On a mob with 8000 HP, going from 100 to 200 DPS saves 40 seconds per kill. If you kill 20 mobs in 30 minutes, that is saving 1600 seconds per hour. You are getting extra respawn cycles when saving almost 30 minutes per hour. But saving 4 seconds per kill means you are getting an extra cycle ten times slower.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Saving 4 seconds per kill still won't matter here.

It doesn't matter a ton. It matters more than casting torpor on full hp players and slowing charm pets with your heals.

Something > Nothing

Simple math

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter a ton. It matters more than casting torpor on full hp players and slowing charm pets with your heals.

Something > Nothing

Simple math

If you kill 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Shaman, and 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Mage, the difference is indeed nothing.

Shaman utility and camp options > nothing.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you kill 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Shaman, and 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Mage, the difference is indeed nothing.

Shaman utility and camp options > nothing.

.... your utility is redundant in this group. The "camp options" you keep droning on about is basically just Ixiblat. Once again the question is "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" NOT "Best 4 person all caster/priest group for Ixiblat". The group already has slow. The group already has malo. The group already has root and other better forms of CC. The group already has tankier pets that do more damage. The group has more heals than it needs. You bring nothing but mediocre DPS which is why you spent 700+ posts with a bunch of napkin math and shitty data trying to prove how much DPS shamans can do. Cause deep down you know that's all you really bring to this group. Unfortunately for you the data kept proving mage was better at it every time you did the math. Now you're arguing the opposite and saying DPS isn't important cause it doesn't get you additional PH/named so you can justify saying shaman redundant bullshit is better somehow.

Please know what I'm about to say I mean with 100% sincerity and honesty and no intention of trolling. You are either the biggest troll I have ever encountered on the internet or one of the stupidest people I've ever conversed with. I'm still not sure which. It's really impressive how bad the arguments you try to make are and how dishonestly you argue. Moving goalposts left and right. Contradicting yourself then going back on it. Making 1 argument then realizing it doesn't support your initial argument so you change it up to argue the opposite while still insisting you're correct. Truly a sight to behold.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.... your utility is redundant in this group. The "camp options" you keep droning on about is basically just Ixiblat. Once again the question is "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" NOT "Best 4 person all caster/priest group for Ixiblat". The group already has slow. The group already has malo. The group already has root and other better forms of CC. The group already has tankier pets that do more damage. The group has more heals than it needs. You bring nothing but mediocre DPS which is why you spent 700+ posts with a bunch of napkin math and shitty data trying to prove how much DPS shamans can do. Cause deep down you know that's all you really bring to this group. Unfortunately for you the data kept proving mage was better at it every time you did the math. Now you're arguing the opposite and saying DPS isn't important cause it doesn't get you additional PH/named so you can justify saying shaman redundant bullshit is better somehow.

Please know what I'm about to say I mean with 100% sincerity and honesty and no intention of trolling. You are either the biggest troll I have ever encountered on the internet or one of the stupidest people I've ever conversed with. I'm still not sure which. It's really impressive how bad the arguments you try to make are and how dishonestly you argue. Moving goalposts left and right. Contradicting yourself then going back on it. Making 1 argument then realizing it doesn't support your initial argument so you change it up to argue the opposite while still insisting you're correct. Truly a sight to behold.

All nonsense, and you still can't say why killing 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Shaman is different than killing 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Mage. You just can't admit that DPS has it's limits in a game with long respawns. It topples your entire argument for DPS, so you keep deflecting to all the strawmen you have created. It's just easier than admitting you are wrong.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

still can't say why killing 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Shaman is different than killing 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Mage.

One irrefutable fact (which you cannot refute) is that the individual mobs will simply die faster vs the hypothetical Mage's group than the hypothetical Shaman's group, due to the Mage dealing higher DPS than the Shaman hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] This really isn't hard.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All nonsense, and you still can't say why killing 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Shaman is different than killing 20 mobs in 30 minutes with a Mage. You just can't admit that DPS has it's limits in a game with long respawns. It topples your entire argument for DPS, so you keep deflecting to all the strawmen you have created. It's just easier than admitting you are wrong.

It's been stated dozens of times now that 2 encs and a cleric doesn't really need anyone else. Their dps and utility are fully covered for most content in the game. This hypothetical is forcing a 4th player that isn't super needed. The argument is what the best filler class is for that largely unnecessary slot. Your dense fucking skull keeps saying "More dps isn't needed!" and we all fucking know that you moron. Guess what's needed less? Your heals and utility that the group already has. DPS can be stacked nearly infinitely even if its for marginal gain. Healing cannot be stacked infinitely. Full health targets cannot be healed. Not to mention your heal literally slows down DPS. Slowed targets don't need to be slowed again. This is soooooooo fucking simple. The only thing to be gained in a 4th slot here is utility (that the group doesn't already have) and additional DPS even if the DPS gain is minimal.