Seal Team removes ourselves from all player agreements

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing about your competitive meta is intrinsic to Everquest. Its all things that P99 has shoehorned into place in order to address player behaviors and try to reduce guilds butting heads at raids, not induce more conflict.

FTE messages, lockouts, 16 hour variance windows, the entire rulebook and petitionquest meta surrounding the raid scene..... Those are the aspects that your crew has learned to run game around, and to be fair you've done a superior job in dominating that mini game. But none of it was put in place as a means to an end for game design reasons, it evolved because of the player behaviors that they didn't want to leave unchecked.

And if the owners of the box are sick of it they have every right and reason to force it to end or change. Rotations are very very classic, many servers used them, enforcing them would not be an affront to EQ's legacy whatsoever. Neither would doing hard resets (quakes) more often, as all the servers were frequently brought down for maintenance resulting in repops that both the top hardcore and lowest casual units could feast upon.

Quakes yes. I doubt the GMs want to quake the server for us right now.

Full rotations?

Idk man. EverQuest is either casual or it’s not. I haven’t seen very many examples of in era end game raid mobs being rotated. If your hard core enough to get to level 60 in kunark, your hard core enough to form an alliance with other guilds. Networking is one of the fun parts of the game.

[Bones]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quakes yes. I doubt the GMs want to quake the server for us right now.

Full rotations?

Idk man. EverQuest is either casual or it’s not. I haven’t seen very many examples of in era end game raid mobs being rotated. If your hard core enough to get to level 60 in kunark, your hard core enough to form an alliance with other guilds. Networking is one of the fun parts of the game.

I mean everybody has their opinions. Not having heard of "many" examples of rotations in classic doesnt mean they didnt exist. They certainly did, and it worked out just fine on my server. The "top" guild was still known to be the top guild for having the first kills on everything and first guild to break into new content, getting the fastest, smoothest kills with generally the least amount of players. They didn't have to block that content from everybody else to feel good about themselves.

And, it could work here. The problem is ever since TMO and then eventually Aftermath on blue the meta has pretty much evolved to be a zergfest. The guild with the most numbers tends to get most of the targets. Its not a coincidence. Your chances of wiping on a quick engage before you have properly set up is far lower when you are zerging a boss with 100+ that is designed to be killed by 30-40 people, and therefore you beat most other guilds to the engage and more often than not you have no trouble killing it, wiping to your own trains afterward, recovering, and handing out loot afterward and not caring about your mistakes to better yourself as a player. As a result they have such a large roster they have more mouths to feed and thus need more pixels, which results in them usually trying to take everything. Its just a downward spiral compounded by the fact that the end game is so top heavy and there's so many more raid capable lvl 60's without an increased supply of raid content. It doesn't help that the good players in the smaller competing guilds tend to get fed up with putting in so much work and getting so little to show for it they end up jumping ship to the top zerg guild at the time, setting back the competition even further.

[Bones]

would also like to point out that my above post does not mean I am a proponent of a rotation system. I just think its ridiculous when I see people bashing the idea, saying its not classic and that it doesn't work. They are very wrong. It was classic and it did work on several servers.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean everybody has their opinions. Not having heard of "many" examples of rotations in classic doesnt mean they didnt exist. They certainly did, and it worked out just fine on my server. The "top" guild was still known to be the top guild for having the first kills on everything and first guild to break into new content, getting the fastest, smoothest kills with generally the least amount of players. They didn't have to block that content from everybody else to feel good about themselves.

And, it could work here. The problem is ever since TMO and then eventually Aftermath on blue the meta has pretty much evolved to be a zergfest. The guild with the most numbers tends to get most of the targets. Its not a coincidence. Your chances of wiping on a quick engage before you have properly set up is far lower when you are zerging a boss with 100+ that is designed to be killed by 30-40 people, and therefore you beat most other guilds to the engage and more often than not you have no trouble killing it, wiping to your own trains afterward, recovering, and handing out loot afterward and not caring about your mistakes to better yourself as a player. As a result they have such a large roster they have more mouths to feed and thus need more pixels, which results in them usually trying to take everything. Its just a downward spiral compounded by the fact that the end game is so top heavy and there's so many more raid capable lvl 60's without an increased supply of raid content. It doesn't help that the good players in the smaller competing guilds tend to get fed up with putting in so much work and getting so little to show for it they end up jumping ship to the top zerg guild at the time, setting back the competition even further.

Which is a shame because I always had fun pushing the limits of some of the content - killing raid targets with as few players possible. Something that gets tangibly more realistic as players get more gear.

[Bones]

Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is a shame because I always had fun pushing the limits of some of the content - killing raid targets with as few players possible. Something that gets tangibly more realistic as players get more gear.

Yup that's exactly what my expectations were coming into this server when it launched and what I was looking forward to. Nobody predicted how popular this server was going to get and then that was the end of that dream.

[Seducio]

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean everybody has their opinions. Not having heard of "many" examples of rotations in classic doesnt mean they didnt exist. They certainly did, and it worked out just fine on my server. The "top" guild was still known to be the top guild for having the first kills on everything and first guild to break into new content, getting the fastest, smoothest kills with generally the least amount of players. They didn't have to block that content from everybody else to feel good about themselves.

And, it could work here. The problem is ever since TMO and then eventually Aftermath on blue the meta has pretty much evolved to be a zergfest. The guild with the most numbers tends to get most of the targets. Its not a coincidence. Your chances of wiping on a quick engage before you have properly set up is far lower when you are zerging a boss with 100+ that is designed to be killed by 30-40 people, and therefore you beat most other guilds to the engage and more often than not you have no trouble killing it, wiping to your own trains afterward, recovering, and handing out loot afterward and not caring about your mistakes to better yourself as a player. As a result they have such a large roster they have more mouths to feed and thus need more pixels, which results in them usually trying to take everything. Its just a downward spiral compounded by the fact that the end game is so top heavy and there's so many more raid capable lvl 60's without an increased supply of raid content. It doesn't help that the good players in the smaller competing guilds tend to get fed up with putting in so much work and getting so little to show for it they end up jumping ship to the top zerg guild at the time, setting back the competition even further.

This is very fair analysis of the situation on p99. Individuals that have migrated from here to TLP servers typically find the play style on the TLP servers that you are looking for in your description.

[Bones]

Originally Posted by Seducio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is very fair analysis of the situation on p99. Individuals that have migrated from here to TLP servers typically find the play style on the TLP servers that you are looking for in your description.

I never said I was looking for anything. It was just that, as you explained it, an analysis.

[Twochain]

IMO the best thing for the community would be to keep the server as competitive as possible, and require Seal Team to stream their raids. I think hundreds of people would watch this, which would expose our project to new players, and keep our game thriving. It also would level the playing field with knowledge.

If you don’t want to raid hardcore, don’t. There are other servers around.

Raiding classic EQ was supposed to be hard. Now that we have a wiki of what to do for each encounter, it becomes trivial without the possibility of someone else taking it.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IMO the best thing for the community would be to keep the server as competitive as possible, and require Seal Team to stream their raids. I think hundreds of people would watch this, which would expose our project to new players, and keep our game thriving. It also would level the playing field with knowledge.

If you don’t want to raid hardcore, don’t. There are other servers around.

Raiding classic EQ was supposed to be hard. Now that we have a wiki of what to do for each encounter, it becomes trivial without the possibility of someone else taking it.

The game would just immediately lose those new players as they realized that they got nothing after they lost the “race” to the raid boss. That’s why EQ competition actually sucks, compared to most other successful competitive games. In order to have a successful competitive environment, the losing party needs to at least make some progress. You may not be the first guild to kill Kel’thuzad on classic WoW, but at least when you do, you still get some loot. You might not be a challenger rank in League of Legends, but at least there are some end of season rewards for Diamond, Platinum, etc

I’m not nor ever will be of the mentality that “everyone should get a trophy”, but when your version of competition is a complete zero sum game that leaves 95% of the playerbase with nothing and zero progress, it will never be successful. It will suck for everyone that didn’t get some form of progress, which will make them quit, which will lead to a dead server. Personally to me it looks like it’s the early game and re-rolling/twinking new chars that is keeping P99 alive, not the end game. The end game is what pushes people away

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The game would just immediately lose those new players as they realized that they got nothing after they lost the “race” to the raid boss. That’s why EQ competition actually sucks, compared to most other successful competitive games. In order to have a successful competitive environment, the losing party needs to at least make some progress. You may not be the first guild to kill Kel’thuzad on classic WoW, but at least when you do, you still get some loot. You might not be a challenger rank in League of Legends, but at least there are some end of season rewards for Diamond, Platinum, etc

I’m not nor ever will be of the mentality that “everyone should get a trophy”, but when your version of competition is a complete zero sum game that leaves 95% of the playerbase with nothing and zero progress, it will never be successful. It will suck for everyone that didn’t get some form of progress, which will make them quit, which will lead to a dead server. Personally to me it looks like it’s the early game and re-rolling/twinking new chars that is keeping P99 alive, not the end game. The end game is what pushes people away

A lot of people have the wrong idea of raiding. I thought the same thing before I joined a big raiding guild. The common explanation is that you have to play 3 million hours a week to get gear. It’s not true. If you have enough players in your group, you can come and go as you please.

Classic was much more about exploring the world and making friends. It’s not a classic problem to have as many max level toons as fast as there are here.

It’s only a zero sum game because people cry about seal team winning instead of banding together and beating the other guys. I mean is every raider on the server in Seal Team?

Progression? The best items in kunark drop off of myconid spore king. That can be trio’d