Lols TMO - Page 25

Anichek · #**241** 06-07-2014, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is one crime here, and it was punished to the maximum extent within TMO's power.

So that person was guild removed, on all characters and accounts, from TMO?

I'm not RnF'ing, I'm asking....I likely missed a post that clarified the guild's sentence on him.

Hitpoint · #**242** 06-07-2014, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anichek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So that person was guild removed, on all characters and accounts, from TMO?

I'm not RnF'ing, I'm asking....I likely missed a post that clarified the guild's sentence on him.

It's in the raid discussion thread that Chest posted.

Frieza_Prexus · #**243** 06-07-2014, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anichek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So that person was guild removed, on all characters and accounts, from TMO?

I'm not RnF'ing, I'm asking....I likely missed a post that clarified the guild's sentence on him.

Yes.

Anichek · #**244** 06-07-2014, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes.

Found Unb's statement.

hatelore · #**245** 06-07-2014, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unbrella got snarky, and that was the wrong thing, but that should carry no penalty or punishment. It just means he acted like an ass. If you've been paying attention, you'd notice that we have dealt with the offender. The presence of an officer is meaningless if there was no real way to prevent the train. If he knew it was going to happen or if he ordered it, that'd be one thing. Here, someone took the matter into their own hands and ran off the rails. There's nothing that Unbrella could have realistically done to foresee this.

Then we end up in a situation where one party, with little to lose, holds the greater party hostage (see Catherin & raid discussions).

If I say I think someone deserved something does that make me responsible for it? While it's certainly poor taste to pop off as an officer, getting lippy doesn't mean that you should retroactively be considered the cause of something.

In real life, supervisors are responsible for the actions that are within the scope of the underling's duties. When Chest finally snaps and shoots a bunch of people while wearing his work uniform no one will be able to sue Burger King. Shooting people isn't something the management would put him up to nor is it something they should have foreseen. The only responsibility on Burger King is to say "Woah, yeah, he's crazy. GTFO."

That's precisely what happened here. Dinacarl went too far, and the guild has dealt with him.

I find it hilarious how willing people are to attach severe liability to situations that are clearly beyond the control of the ostensibly supervisory parties. If the guild leadership helps someone break the rules, or if they knew or should have known that something bad would happen then you can attach liability. If they refused to discipline the person then you can consider action, especially if that person screws up again after the leadership agreed to continue housing that person.

Stop setting up a false narrative. You're framing the issue as if Unbrella has done something actionable. He got mouthy, but he still was clearly making himself available for honest attempts at resolution. Unbrella did not train BDA. There is one crime here, and it was punished to the maximum extent within TMO's power.

Go play lawyer irl, this is rnf. Your guild member trained an entire raid. Your guild deserves a ban for that. Are you saying guilds have not been banned in the past from a member of said guild training? Companies are held responsible for the actions of there employees all of the time also, I call bullshit on your made up burger king analogy.

You can attempt to rule lawyer this all you wish, but the video does not lie. Your guild should be held responsible for the actions of YOUR guild's members. That is all. Court ajourned.

hatelore · #**246** 06-07-2014, 05:16 PM

And you find it hilarous that your guild cannot control its members? Yeah me too, But I bet by banning your guild for a few weeks, your guilds unruly members would fall right in line.

Ravager · #**247** 06-07-2014, 05:21 PM

Had there not been such damning fraps, Dinacarl would still be in TMO and every one of you would be defending his actions calling it a "pull" like he tried to claim before everyone knew how good the fraps was.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gaffin 7.0 · #**248** 06-07-2014, 05:39 PM

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Frieza_Prexus · #**249** 06-07-2014, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatelore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your guild should be held responsible for the actions of YOUR guild's members. That is all. Court ajourned.

The guild should be held responsible to the extent that it failed in its duties. One person running off and being an asshole when there was no prior indication that they would do so doesn't put the responsibility on the guild. Certainly, there's associative issues which is why he was removed.

It would be laughably easy to make a new account, use a different computer & connection, and level up something to the low 50's join any number of guilds and train people. Frankly, I'm surprised that level of P99 terrorism hasn't happened already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatelore

And you find it hilarous that your guild cannot control its members? Yeah me too, But I bet by banning your guild for a few weeks, your guilds unruly members would fall right in line.

Shutting down the server would also stop all the trains. Stop the feigned outrage and hyperbole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatelore

Companies are held responsible for the actions of there employees all of the time also, I call bullshit on your made up burger king analogy.

When the company has a responsibility to prevent such behavior, yes. It's called Respondeat Superior. I suggest you read more closely. The concept might seem less stupid if you actually understood it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravager

Had there not been such damning fraps, Dinacarl would still be in TMO and every one of you would be defending his actions calling it a "pull" like he tried to claim before everyone knew how good the fraps was.

He likely would have been off the hook. People get away for crimes all the time for a lack of evidence. It doesn't make it right, but that's the reality of the situation. Personally, I'm glad there's a FRAPS. It means that we can actually demand accountability for the actions of our members. That's about all any guild can do in a situation like this.

Lazie · #**250** 06-07-2014, 06:06 PM

I mean we could all adopt a misguided Messiah Complex like Chest based on blind hatred of a tag. We could all go around spewing vitriolic comments and antagonizing innocent bystanders with our actions because we can't get over that hatred that has no basis in the present.

No one is defending what the fraps showed. Most are trying to find a resolution to it that is reasonable and fair. However, the one person who keeps pounding a false horn of dissent in multiple settings and stopping positive progress is Chest. In this situation alone he first caused disruption in Fear. When a player reacted poorly to that and did something wrong. He pounds that false horn louder to stall progress further. Hopefully he eventually sees he is the one that truly stops a lot of progress and change from happening. That or the other officers in BDA see just how poorly he represents their guild.