Re: Raid Situation

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by chief [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone seems to think during classic eq every server had a rotation and loot fell out of the sky. This wasn't the case for many servers where 1-3 guilds would kill everything and the only time you got a mob was when a new expansion came out and the 1-3 guilds moved on to that.

Nobody is asking for loot to fall out of the sky. Everyone wants the thrill of earning it. A rotation is a suggestion that people who have experience raiding here are suggesting as a band-aid fix until more content is delivered with Velious (the true problem).

If you were experiencing the problem first-hand, you would understand the true nature of the problem right now. Your post indicates that you do not.

[Hitpoint]

Why are we still talking about this shit? It's all been covered 1000 times from 100 different angles. T1 guilds want their efforts to be rewarded and their raid scene not to be shit on with rotations. T2 guilds want to see and experience content without having to compete for it, park characters, wake up at strange hours, or race to mobs. BDA wants as many free mobs as they can get without having to do anything besides lawyer on the forums, and they will milk this situation until they get it. GMs want their petition queue to be lower.

Okay, we've established all these things. There should be no more discussion about playstyle, or what this server was meant for, or how players should choose to play the game.

How many mobs does BDA need before they agree to a plan?

How many mobs should T1 be forced to give up?

Schedule another meeting and answer these two questions. All that matters is negotiations, so stop fucking wasting your time debating anything else. Don't let Chest waste 15 minutes talking about how toxic the raid scene is and how the only thing that's fair is 50/50. Don't let anyone from T1 talk about the spirit of competition. This shit doesn't matter because neither side will ever agree. Just figure out what each side can live with and let us move on.

And why hasn't a new meeting been scheduled yet? Fuck, we all know from the time you plan one it's going to take everyone like 2-3 days to make sure they can make it. Stop delaying this shit.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never saw 1 rotation in Classic. And I played 1999-2006 or so.

Did you play on every server at the top tier to get a hold of their rotation? Many people here remember a rotation on their server, and many people here remember FFA competition on their server. Both can be included.

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never saw 1 rotation in Classic. And I played 1999-2006 or so.

Neither did I, but our server wasn't as heavily populated as P99 is either, nor did it have the same volume of experience that exists here.

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are we still talking about this shit? It's all been covered 1000 times from 100 different angles. T1 guilds want their efforts to be rewarded and their raid scene not to be shit on with rotations. T2 guilds want to see and experience content without having to compete for it, park characters, wake up at strange hours, or race to mobs. BDA wants as many free mobs as they can get without having to do anything besides lawyer on the forums, and they will milk this situation until they get it. GMs want their petition queue to be lower.

Okay, we've established all these things. There should be no more discussion about playstyle, or what this server was meant for, or how players should choose to play the game.

How many mobs does BDA need before they agree to a plan?

How many mobs should T1 be forced to give up?

Schedule another meeting and answer these two questions. All that matters is negotiations, so stop fucking wasting your time debating anything else. Don't let Chest waste 15 minutes talking about how toxic the raid scene is and how the only thing that's fair is 50/50. Don't let anyone from T1 talk about the spirit of competition. This shit doesn't matter because neither side will ever agree. Just figure out what each side can live with and let us move on.

And why hasn't a new meeting been scheduled yet? Fuck, we all know from the time you plan one it's going to take everyone like 2-3 days to make sure they can make it. Stop delaying this shit.

Think "loopholes" Hitpoint. Read between the lines. The answer is there.

First Clue: Tier 1 and Tier 2 anything (mobs/guilds) as a classification is folly, because these are volatile variables.

Second Clue: Behaviours of players won't change. An asshole is still an asshole and a flower is still a flower, no matter what rules you apply to them.

Third Clue: Without more content, there still isn't enough to distribute amongst the capability of the entire playerbase.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never saw 1 rotation in Classic. And I played 1999-2006 or so.

I did.

Point. Counterpoint.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by chief [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone seems to think during classic eq every server had a rotation and loot fell out of the sky. This wasn't the case for many servers where 1-3 guilds would kill everything and the only time you got a mob was when a new expansion came out and the 1-3 guilds moved on to that.

Rotations were on old content... maybe 1 instance of a rotation on current content and that wasnt until velious (less mob scarcity)

[Autotune]

All raid targets outside VP and SKY should go

T1/T2/FFA (Which was what I proposed for Inny/VT/Trak/VS, just applied to everything by rogean now I hear)

That solves all problems.

No matter how you look at it, the hardcores are going to have to skip targets, might as well do it as easily as possible.

Also, I laugh at the people who will complain that they will have to "Keep up with whose turn it is" when you silly fucks keep up with every kill time regardless of who kills what anyhow.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are we still talking about this shit? It's all been covered 1000 times from 100 different angles. T1 guilds want their efforts to be rewarded and their raid scene not to be shit on with rotations. T2 guilds want to see and experience content without having to compete for it, park characters, wake up at strange hours, or race to mobs. BDA wants as many free mobs as they can get without having to do anything besides lawyer on the forums, and they will milk this situation until they get it. GMs want their petition queue to be lower.

Okay, we've established all these things. There should be no more discussion about playstyle, or what this server was meant for, or how players should choose to play the game.

How many mobs does BDA need before they agree to a plan?

How many mobs should T1 be forced to give up?

Schedule another meeting and answer these two questions. All that matters is negotiations, so stop fucking wasting your time debating anything else. Don't let Chest waste 15 minutes talking about how toxic the raid scene is and how the only thing that's fair is 50/50. Don't let anyone from T1 talk about the spirit of competition. This shit doesn't matter because neither side will ever agree. Just figure out what each side can live with and let us move on.

1) All non-epic, non VP mobs rotate between Tier 1 (Hardcore) and Tier 2 (Casual) between the tiers based on tier lockout. What each tier does with their mob is up to them, be it FFA competition/tracking, or rotation/delayed re-engagement friendly competition.

2) All epic mobs cycle tier 1 -> tier 2 -> FFA, to reward competition and give tier 2 guilds in the future a chance to see what it is like to compete against tier 1 guilds before deciding to become hardcore competitors, and join that style. (This was a compromise from epic mobs being in rule 1)

3) VP is never, and will never be a tier 2 raiding spot, it will never be casual, it will always be FFA with no stipulations other than those agreed upon by the tier 1 guilds for their style of gameplay, but that is between themselves, not for the casuals to create.

Casuals get their bubble, hardcores get their bubble, conflicts between these two playstyles stop by a hefty majority. Hardcores get 2-3 mobs a day, around 75 total a month, to compete over, and casuals can claim the rest to do with whatever they wish.

Done. Everyone can peaceably coexist in this setting. Hardcores are left to FFA among themselves, by their own terms, and casuals amongst themselves, by their own terms. Everyone gets their own environment, and can go to whichever environment they want.

Problem solved.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you play on every server at the top tier to get a hold of their rotation? Many people here remember a rotation on their server, and many people here remember FFA competition on their server. Both can be included.

I never played on a server with an end game rotation. I was on E`ci and Tunare. The most cooperation I know of was later in PoP over backflagging each other's recruits (and it was basically a Tier 2 agreement).

Caveat, there was an Asian & American rotation on Trakanon (HoO or Vane / Reconstructed), but that was more because they played 12 hours apart more than any formal agreement. If you weren't in these 2 top dogs during Kunark you didn't get Trakanon EVER nor saw VP. My Tier 2 guild did end up sniping a Trakanon by staying up late one night and killing it on Asian time, but I think this was within weeks of Velious coming out. Prior to Kunark the top one guild killed 90% of Naggy/Vox/CT/Inny. In Velious the top 2 guilds (Vane/Reconstructed) monopolized the end game, farmed ST and NToV, woke the Sleeper, again until just weeks before Luclin came out (Vane had quit EQ by this point too). Unless we were lucky all we got was Vyemm who's gflux was too annoying so Recon left it up and we just farmed ST named golems for 2h primal since that's all that dropped post Sleeper.