Disappointed Cleric

[Clark]

Originally Posted by bizzum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being friends with me is not allowed.

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[falkun]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I firmly believe that most people here are good people

I like to believe this, and I even feel most of TMO's members are probably good people, but then you get the Eccezan's, Alarti's, and such of Norrath, who are not "most people". Even Zagum here offers to help people when they cannot amass their own raid force (seems like a fair trade in that instance, but not when the wanting cleric brings his own, adequate raid force).

Now, TMO is definitely not alone in this. FE/Slydexx stealing an eye, Perun ninja looting, VD mem-blurring, BDA training FC for Maestro, etc. are all examples of players getting greedy for pixels instead of respecting their fellow players. I don't care who commits the act, players should be above these actions for 14 year old pixels, and I'll call you out on it, whether publicly or via PM. Not confronting these actions only leads people to commit them and encourages the silence within the community. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like to believe this, and I even feel most of TMO's members are probably good people, but then you get the Eccezan's, Alarti's, and such of Norrath, who are not "most people". Even Zagum here offers to help people when they cannot amass their own raid force (seems like a fair trade in that instance, but not when the wanting cleric brings his own, adequate raid force).

Now, TMO is definitely not alone in this. FE/Slydexx stealing an eye, Perun ninja looting, VD mem-blurring, BDA training FC for Maestro, etc. are all examples of players getting greedy for pixels instead of respecting their fellow players. I don't care who commits the act, players should be above these actions for 14 year old pixels, and I'll call you out on it, whether publicly or via PM. Not confronting these actions only leads people to commit them and encourages the silence within the community. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

enough with fe/slydexx stealing an eye. fe didn't steal anything. i agree there are good people and more questionable people in every guild. labeling an entire guild for actions of a few is just something people try to conveniently do to get a point across or make accusations.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

enough with fe/slydexx stealing an eye. fe didn't steal anything. i agree there are good people and more questionable people in every guild. labeling an entire guild for actions of a few is just something people try to conveniently do to get a point across or make accusations.

And that is exactly my point:

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

You, and probably most of FE, rightfully feel the Eye Slydexx gave to Visceral shouldn't reflect on all of you. But it does, and because you don't condemn the decision the rest of the server sees it that way. How loud does FE cry when a single player or two from TMO starts a CT DT cycle? In that instance, FE wants to paint all of TMO with one brush, but doesn't like this "Eye incident" painting all of FE with one brush. Stop being hypocritical.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And that is exactly my point:

You, and probably most of FE, rightfully feel the Eye Slydexx gave to Visceral shouldn't reflect on all of you. But it does, and because you don't condemn the decision the rest of the server sees it that way. How loud does FE cry when a single player or two from TMO starts a CT DT cycle? In that instance, FE wants to paint all of TMO with one brush, but doesn't like this "Eye incident" painting all of FE with one brush. Stop being hypocritical.

that's where we differ. just because chest has done plenty of douche things i don't attribute those actions towards you. i think that is ignorant and short-sighted.

your example of dt cycles is a poor one. those are not a single players action it's a coordinated effort.

we'll ignore the FACT that bda leadership (atleast 2 of them) came to this board flinging nothing but lies about FE "stealing the eye"...how many times did chest get called out even by his own guild for making stuff up in that thread? I lost count.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's where we differ. just because chest has done plenty of douche things i don't attribute those actions towards you. i think that is ignorant and short-sighted.

I try to seperate the player and the guild, but I cannot honestly say your guild tag does not reflect on you as a player/person. Can you completely disassociate the player and the guild tag?

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

your example of dt cycles is a poor one. those are not a single players action it's a coordinated effort.

And BDA training FC for Maestro was the action of a single player too, but one raid force interfered with another. The line is VERY gray, Mav. It only takes 1 player to start a DT cycle, it only takes 1 FE app to ruin a guild image.

I brought up the Eye incident as a myriad of examples of players being greedy and other players condoning the actions. I don't see you getting mad that BDA trained FC or that VD mem-blurred in VP. You are cherry picking an example because you don't like it, even though it fits the argument from an unbiased viewpoint. Unlike you, I offered examples of where an interest of mine faltered, stop being hypocritical.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I try to seperate the player and the guild, but I cannot honestly say your guild tag does not reflect on you as a player/person. Can you completely disassociate the player and the guild tag?

And BDA training FC for Maestro was the action of a single player too, but one raid force interfered with another. The line is VERY gray, Mav. It only takes 1 player to start a DT cycle, it only takes 1 FE app to ruin a guild image.

i don't think you have to completely disassociate the player from the guild tag, but people usually have an agenda/reason for implying person x is like person y because they are in the same guild.

still think that's a poor example. if it was a single person doing it without being orchestrated or coordinated by the guild then it's not the same thing. dt cycles are started strategically to stall/stop a raid. regardless i'm leaving this conversation it's about cleric epic not the rest of the server.

edit: you also brought up the eye thing to take a shot at FE imo. it's been debated to death but FE did not steal anything from bda. that is a bda/slydexx issue and both sides have different stories on who the eye belongs to. i have no opinion as i wasn't there when it dropped.

[falkun]

That is completely incorrect Mav. I brought up the Eye incident as one example of many about how individual/small group greed has been the reason for hurtful actions against other individuals/groups. And that by condoning them, we are proliferating these actions. The sad part is, you are here debating with me about a single incident because it doesn't fit your viewpoint, and you are doing EXACTLY the thing I'm accusing the server as a whole of doing far too often: turning a blind eye because its "a bda/slydexx issue [even though Mav's guild mate benefited from it at the expense of BDA]."

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is completely incorrect Mav. I brought up the Eye incident as one example of many about how individual/small group greed has been the reason for hurtful actions against other individuals/groups. And that by condoning them, we are proliferating these actions. The sad part is, you are here debating with me about a single incident because it doesn't fit your viewpoint, and you are doing EXACTLY the thing I'm accusing the server as a whole of doing far too often: turning a blind eye because its "a bda/slydexx issue [even though Mav's guild mate benefited from it at the expense of BDA]."

could have left out fe and just mentioned slydexx and the eye, it was a jab. i already said i have no idea who is right/wrong in the eye incident. i was in the majority saying give bda back the next eye until your leadership douched it up. i still think you should get back the next eye, but i'm not slydexx's boss. so again, you are incorrect and making assumptions. Also, you are just projecting your viewpoint that we stole the eye. I'm fairly sure you weren't involved in the conversations between slydexx and whoever that led him to believe it was his eye to keep. So you are just as guilty for placing blame on individuals without having all the information necessary.

[falkun]

I could have also mentioned Sentenza/Tortue/Aalpha/etc. for the CT training, or Sadad/Deajay(me) for BDA/FC+Maestro, or Roran/Myu/Anthrax for VD mem blurring. But these actions taken by individuals were viewed by others as affecting the whole guild of the player that commits/committed them. You still continue to argue a single incident because you don't agree with it from your biased viewpoint.

"Projecting your viewpoint that we stole the eye." Can you seriously say that with a straight face? Even you admit the eye was taken erroneously (by your admission that you and the majority of FE felt the Eye should have been replaced).

This incident has been dragged through RNF, the "information necessary" is out there, not even privately hidden behind guild forums. Your hypocritical belief that this incident does/should not cast FE in a negative light while other incidents should cast negative shadows on other guilds is where the problem is here. FE, nor TMO, BDA, Divinity nor any other guild on this server is squeaky clean. It also takes constant effort by the members of their respective guild to keep their slates as clean as possible. By trying to sweep it under the rug, you are silently condoning the action. Back to my original point: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Mav, I want to think you are a good man, stop letting evil triumph.