Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I WOULD NOT trade racial regen for FSI.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did [give my fungi to an alt once I got Torpor]. And I didn’t even have a Vindi BP to replace it with.

Troxx would gladly lose 15 HP regen to gain the random chance to reduce damage spikes. But Troxx would never lose 8 HP regen to gain the random chance to reduce damage spikes.

Troxx can write all the paragraphs he wants, but he can't keep these two positions simultaneously.

FSI is the Min/Max option, as it gives you the random chance to reduce damage spikes, which is more important than some passive regeneration once you have Torpor.

Troxx understands this, as he gave away his Fungi even before he had Vindi BP. He simply cannot admit he is wrong, and therefore is twisting himself into knots to avoid it.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx would gladly lose 15 HP regen to gain the random chance to reduce damage spikes. But Troxx would never lose 8 HP regen to gain the random chance to reduce damage

Troxx gladly gave his fungi to his monk twink alt. He had a thurg bp in his bad for free clicky stamina so just decided to use that instead. Troxx did not throw his fungi in the garbage for a crappy (and undeniably worse) quest bp.

Again: FSI doesn’t reduce damage intake. I spelled out precisely what it does and does not do.

Do you even read?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx gladly gave his fungi to his monk twink alt. He had a thurg bp in his bad for free clicky stamina so just decided to use that instead. Troxx did not throw his fungi in the garbage for a crappy (and undeniably worse) quest bp.

Again: FSI doesn’t reduce damage intake. I spelled out precisely what it does and does not do.

Do you even read?

I do read. You lost 15 HP Regen on your Shaman willingly because you didn't need it. Thurg BP has better defensive stats over Fungi.

FSI does reduce the damage you take because not getting interrupted while casting slow saves you hundreds of HP worth of damage from an unslowed mob. Much more than passive regen in the same time.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FSI does reduce the damage you take because not getting interrupted while casting slow saves you hundreds of HP worth of damage from an unslowed mob. Much more than passive regen in the same time.

Funny how I’ve never experienced this. I’ve solo’d plenty of cliff golems, WW dragons and the like. I’ve small manned VP guardian wurms and had plenty of resisted slows. I have not experienced situations where I’m getting bash stunned and breaking my “flow” as it were.

Perhaps the biggest flaw in your reasoning is that you’ve never played a high level shaman that doesn’t have FSI? Perhaps you go “aha I am teh bestest race” every time you see a bash thinking you were gonna be stunned? When realistically you weren’t going to be stunned at all by those bashes? Remember that FSI does not make you immune to being interrupted- it only stops that chance of an actual stun.

Stuns happen, but most bashes do not stun. When they do stun, it’s pretty damn brief

If every landed bash always resulted in a stun (it doesn’t) the case for FSI vs regen might actually be worth having.

The stars and planets have to align for it to have a meaningful impact. However often that is … I’ve never once (not once) experienced it on my xp capped shaman.

[Naethyn]

Vindi bp is nice because you can give your fungi to another alt.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx, simply claiming I haven't proven my case isn't an argument. Thus far I have shown plenty of evidence to support my position, and you agree with what I have said.

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vindi bp is nice because you can give your fungi to another alt.

You wouldn't give Fungi to an alt if you needed it on your main.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You wouldn't give Fungi to an alt if you needed it on your main.

I did. And I didn’t even have a Vindi BP to replace it with.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did. And I didn’t even have a Vindi BP to replace it with.

Exactly. You understand that you don't need the regeneration.

You lost 15 HP regen per tick and gained some mitigation.

With FSI you lose 8 HP regen per tick and gained some mitigation.

It's really that simple. That is why FSI is the best Min/Max option for Shamans. Many people, including yourself, choose mitigation over regen once you have Torpor. You did so when you didn't even have the optimal replacement.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You lost 15 HP regen per tick and gained some mitigation.

My shaman lost his fungi and my monk gained a fungi. My warrior later gained that same fungi. My paladin later gained that same fungi. Fungi is so much better than thug bp on a shaman it’s not even funny.

Point is I had a fungi. My shaman got torpor and for once I could comfortably function without it.

You’re still missing the point lol.

With FSI you lose 8 HP regen per tick and gained some mitigation

No. Read that other thread. FSI only stop the stun component from a bash that lands. Most bashes do not stun. While stunned you still can dodge, parry, block and fire other defensive abilities.

FSI does NOT give you mitigation. It only stops a fairly rare chance that a bash will stun you. For shamans this is only relevant if it interrupted an important spell cast at a moment of time it was important not to be interrupted.

The tradeoff at 60 for this benefit is 8hp/tick standing and 11hp/tick sitting permanent regeneration. The tradeoff before level 60 is literally double (or more depending on level) your baseline racial regen. That’s a whole lot of extra health (mana) over the course of getting to 60. At 60, it still translates to better survivability and mana recovery than FSI ever will.

Quit with the false equivalency argument. Being able to function without a fungi after you have torpor does not mean that FSI is better than innate regeneration- it is an entirely separate discussion.

Remember … I already was able to function without FSI for 60 levels on that shaman. Weirdly, I’ve managed to function just fine on 7 other non-shaman spell casting classes to 6 without FSI.

So far you have made one point:

1) a torpor shaman can function without racial regen

What you have not proven or honestly even made a strong case for (as bcbrown has pointed out) is that the immunity from the fairly uncommon and random brief stun actually has significant value.

Remember his posts? I do. His posts started on page 6 and really came to a head here:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think your argument supporting your opinion is fairly convincing. It is not a proof.

As you are unwilling to provide a proof, allow me to attempt to summarize your argument:

Trolls/Iksars get +8 standing Regen over other races. 8 x 10 x 60 = 4800 HP per hour. That's the equivalent of 3-4 Torpors per hour. 3-4 Torpors per hour is not really significant on a Torpor Shaman. FSI increases your chance of survival before the initial slow on any difficult fight, which can actually be the difference between success and failure. Increasing your survivability during the first minute of a fight (before a mob is slowed) will be better than a small boost to your Mana/HP regeneration on a class that can already fully recover in 3 minutes or less.

Your argument is that the increased survivability of no stuns before a slow during a solo fight is a subjectively better than the (quantifiable) benefit of 4800 HP/hour.

Show me the proof or stop claiming it's provable.

You haven’t actually proven anything.

From practical experience I can honestly say I have never encountered a situation on my shaman or any of my other level 60 caster classes where a bash stun made a difference.

On my bard aoe kiting? Yeah sure. But bards can’t be ogres and when you’re aoe kiting they aren’t hitting you from the front if you mess up.

[Toxigen]

some mitigation != some mitigation