Mage epic

[Duik]

I know serveral unsafe spots in hate.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Such vicious personal attacks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look, y'all can keep making bad insults, or you can use your brains and point out an actual flaw in my argument. Here it is, again, with numbered points you can easily reference.

Back in '99-'01 ...

1. 99% of players didn't have two accounts
2. < 10% of those with 2nd accounts had 45+ level Rangers on them (a safe assumption since there are more than ten classes, and getting to 45 was hard back then)
3. < 50% had connections that lasted, consistently, for hours at a time
4. < 1% willing to do something that crazy; the risk of losing your corpse and/or tons of XP was scarier back then
5. < 1% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate

Let's just throw out #3 (the Internet connection one), because I don't want to argue the exact percentage, and let's throw out #4 for the same reason: that still leaves 1% of 10% of 1%, ie. ... 0.001%.

Like I keep saying, maybe someone did it once, but 99.99% of all classic play involved 0% Hate tracking.

Yet again, you come and post your opinions as facts. You're the Donald Trump of the P99 forums. None of anything you're saying is provable and, in fact, some of it is just incorrect based on others' personal experiences.

Especially if we're talking like 2001 part of the classic era, I had an internet connection that worked literally all day and night without a disconnect (except occasionally if a zone got way overpopulated, like during a GM event (or to use a Luclin example, in the bazaar)).

Plenty of people were doing crazy shit in 2001 for sure.

You can find posts with the large raiding guilds talking about safe spots in the planes (and safe spots being moved in patches) from the classic era.

And to add an additional note with respect to one of the things that started this whole discussion, you can find discussions of MQ from the classic pre-epic era and you can find people requesting staff MQs post-epic release, which would indicate that not only were people aware of (and utilizing) MQs for quests (including epics) but that there were people taking staff drops in Hate and selling them.

You're just not correct man. At the very very least you just had a server that was different from others and your experience there is only informative insofar as the statement is "MY server didn't do this"

[azeth]

On Rodcet Nife in 1999 I raided Plane of Hate with the guild Avatars of Discord and we used 2 different safe spots to pull to. One along the east wall, another on the second floor. Totally safe to afk, no panthers etc

[azeth]

Pathers*

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Trexller [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

back in the day I definitely had several accounts,

I believe you (and as I stated, I 2-boxed in classic also) ... but, again my point wasn't "no one 2-boxed in classic", it was:

Originally Posted by Loramin

99% of players didn't have two accounts

Do you contest that point?

Similarly, I 100% agree with:

Originally Posted by Trexller [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

on P99 we have nothing but time

But again, I'm defining "what is classic?" as "what was done in '99-'01". I feel that's a more reasonable definition than "what could possibly be done, given an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of keyboards".

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in fact, some of it is just incorrect based on others' personal experiences.

Ok, please show exactly that.

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had an internet connection that worked literally all day

I played at a cyber cafe with a T1! But are you disputing?

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

< 50% had connections that lasted, consistently, for hours at a time

... and if so ... why? I literally conceded that point in my last post!

My argument doesn't need that point to win, and I didn't want to quibble with pedants over the exact percentage. So, even though I believe it to be true, proving otherwise doesn't impact my argument.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can find posts with the large raiding guilds talking about safe spots in the planes (and safe spots being moved in patches) from the classic era.

I call bullshit unless you can provide a single source. Let's save you time though: even if you could (and I truly don't think you can), it still would just change:

Originally Posted by Loramin

< 1% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate

to:

Originally Posted by Loramin

< 2% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate

Right? You're not going to find evidence that 2+% of classic knew about Hate safe spots:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you can find discussions of MQ from the classic pre-epic era

This is what's known as a straw man defense; instead of arguing against my points, you argue that MQ is classic ... which has nothing to do with my argument.

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there were people taking staff drops in Hate and selling them.

Same thing here: my argument isn't "no one ever sold a Mage epic in classic" (though I would argue it was incredibly rare). Debating points that aren't on my list doesn't hurt my argument!

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're just not correct man.

Maybe I am, but you've done a piss poor job of disputing any of the central points I made.

Look CD, when someone says "I believe X to be true, because of points A, B, and C", you don't convince anyone of anything by arguing against point F or point Q. You have to make a good point (with logic, with evidence, etc.) that contradicts A, B, or C.

[loramin]

You know, I feel like I'm not doing RnF justice.

You're all a bunch of easy mode crybabies who known nothing about Classic EQ. You've played too long here and gotten soft.

You probably never even played it, and just pretended to play while looking over your older brother's shoulder. Stop being incompetent: you don't need a loser unclassically sitting 24/7 in Hate to play the game for you. Git gud!

Ah ... that feels much better.

[danzig]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[*]< 1% willing to do something that crazy; the risk of losing your corpse and/or tons of XP was scarier back then[*]< 1% had any idea there even were safe spots in Hate

IRC: Conversation with Aradune 07/04/2000

Quote:
<Strago> Aradune you should also upgrade hate. The southwest corner is totally lame. People using NO tatics can just go in and pull away. Its not even worthy of having the name "Plane of Hate", it should be "Plane of get armor for free"
<Aradune> strago: yeah, it needs an upgrade. at first these zones are really hard, but then over time they get easier as people learn

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know, I feel like I'm not doing RnF justice.

You're all a bunch of easy mode crybabies who known nothing about Classic EQ. You've played too long here and gotten soft.

You probably never even played it, and just pretended to play while looking over your older brother's shoulder. Stop being incompetent: you don't need a loser unclassically sitting 24/7 in Hate to play the game for you. Git gud!

Ah ... that feels much better.

let the hate flow through you

this is the way

[booter]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know, I feel like I'm not doing RnF justice.

You're all a bunch of easy mode crybabies who known nothing about Classic EQ. You've played too long here and gotten soft.

You probably never even played it, and just pretended to play while looking over your older brother's shoulder. Stop being incompetent: you don't need a loser unclassically sitting 24/7 in Hate to play the game for you. Git gud!

Ah ... that feels much better.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by danzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IRC: Conversation with Aradune 07/04/2000

Quote:
<Strago> Aradune you should also upgrade hate. The southwest corner is totally lame. People using NO tatics can just go in and pull away. Its not even worthy of having the name "Plane of Hate", it should be "Plane of get armor for free"
<Aradune> strago: yeah, it needs an upgrade. at first these zones are really hard, but then over time they get easier as people learn

Finally, someone actually responding to my points: thank you! Awesome quote: I learned something, and you have successfully weakened my argument.

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But, as I noted above when I responded to CD, I think the core argument remains unchanged. A few people knew about safe spots ... but they were still the vast, vast minority of the server ... and out of that small pool, no one was tracking Hate, because of my other points (eg. only a small percentage of that small percentage had a second account with a 45+ Ranger).


BTW, I should note that there's a much faster way to take down my argument than trying to nickle and dime the exact percentages in my points. Instead, just be awesome like danzig, and produce evidence of Hate tracking in classic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If danzig could produce that Aradune quote so easily, surely it'd be trivial to provide such evidence, especially if Hate tracking was as prevalent as some of you imagine.