Green99 pro strats and early game goals

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love classic EQ but I don't understand how the PnP is bad or not classic?

The PnP is not classic because it factually was not in the game for a LONG time. I'm pretty sure it didn't get implemented until 2000, and definitely was not in the game for the first 6 months. And it's bad because it makes the game boring.

Even beyond that, the PnP on p99 right now isn't what it was in classic!! Back then, the PnP stated that all camps must be shared among anyone who shows up and wants to camp it, which is NOT how things work here.

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seperate note: Dots did full damage on mobs while they ran for like 2? 3 months?

It didn't get changed until 6 months into the game. DoT's actually had slightly lower durations up until that point; they were nerfed for kiting purposes but buffed for root rotting or fear kiting or tank-and-spank.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The devs have already made clear (prior even to Green's announcement) that there are some classic thing P99 just won't have. Not necessarily because the staff doesn't want them, but because they're too much work for too little benefit.

Allowing people to compete for content by outdamaging each other requires 0 effort. No game code change, no GM intervention needed. It actually cuts down on the amount of work GM's have to do, because any petitions about "killstealing" get auto-ignored, since that's how the game works.

If they are blatantly ignoring something that was essential to 1999 Everquest and requires nothing at all to implement (while declaring they are trying to make the game as classic as possible), then they are massive hypocrits and bad designers.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If they are blatantly ignoring something that was essential to 1999 Everquest and requires nothing at all to implement (while declaring they are trying to make the game as classic as possible), then they are massive hypocrits and bad designers.

Yeah, they could be "hypocrits and bad designers" .. or maybe they just don't agree with you that people being assholes to each other is an essential part of what classic EQ was all about.

[Nuggie]

Zuranthium, I like your passion, but I think you're not going to get what you want.

[Jimjam]

Lack of universal PNP doesn't mean there was no intervention. Previous to PNP enforcement was down to GM initiative.

All PNP did was codify enforcement to achieve a parity of standards across servers. It is disingenuous to stipulate no PNP = total anarchic Wild West Ffa.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, they could be "hypocrits and bad designers" .. or maybe they just don't agree with you that people being assholes to each other is an essential part of what classic EQ was all about.

It's not "being assholes" to each other. It's competition. It's the game world being alive. It's social dynamic. The people who don't want to compete for content are free to band together, blacklist all of the "Kill Stealers" from their guilds and groups, and avoid the areas where they know others are going to be fighting over content (or call in reinforcements to areas where you were "there first" and feel you have claim to). That's exactly what happened back in the day.

The MOST asshole policy of all is the one p99 currently has. People allowed to indefinitely solo-lock camps. Have no skill and no life? Then p99 is for you! This is not classic in any way at all. If there is going to be a Play Nice Policy, then it should be the one that was actually put into the game eventually - people sharing camps.

The current p99 policy also encourages RMT. A small group of players being able to indefinitely lock down camps means they get sole ownership over certain items on a server, and thus can create a business around selling those items to everyone else, who now have a 0% chance of obtaining that item without buying it.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lack of universal PNP doesn't mean there was no intervention. Previous to PNP enforcement was down to GM initiative.

All PNP did was codify enforcement to achieve a parity of standards across servers. It is disingenuous to stipulate no PNP = total anarchic Wild West Ffa.

It was explicitly the intent of the game designers to have competition, and there are articles written by players circa September 1999 talking about their tactics for combating "kill stealers". At no point is "petitioning a GM" ever mentioned as a solution. The game was most definitely a FFA during 1999.

GM's had power to intervene, but they were not there to stop competition. They were there to stop exploits, to pull players out of being bugged into a wall, and to stop extreme harassment (verbal abuse, or a high level player specifically following around a low level player and killing everything the low-level player engages).

[Halfcell]

Zuranthium, whether it is "classic" or not, p99's history has pretty clearly proven that the PnP is necessary. Hell it's present shows that. Riot had a BP of Eradication ninjalooted not a week ago. How many times would I have to train that guy, or steal his kills, or how much would I have to ruin his reputation to make that a fair trade?

Yes, the corpse probably should have been locked down, and normally stuff like that is, but that's no more a justification for stealing than saying and unlocked front door means you should get to rob a house.

Another example, I took a shot at soloing Aillysh the other day on my shaman. You are telling me that someone should have been able to roll up and memblur her at 5% and steal that kill? With no repercussions? I guess I could just follow them around for weeks and train them every chance I had right?

PnP exists for the same reason laws exist in the real world. So that when someone robs my house I can go to the cops instead of finding him and shooting him. The strong praying on the weak is bad, but the shitty praying on the vengeful creates a cascading effect of damage that never ends, never stops, and hurts more than just those involved to begin with.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not "being assholes" to each other. It's competition.

It's not real competition. It's implementing the one kind of competition your favorite classes excel at while preventing the other classes from fighting back through pvp.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not real competition.

LOL, it's exactly "real competition". Most damage done = win. The same as whoever is the highest jumper or fast runner or scores the most goals, wins in an athletic competition. What's not real competition is declaring everyone a winner regardless of skill and performance (which is what the original PnP catered to), or even worse, the current p99 mechanic of people being able to own a camp by doing nothing but sitting around. That mechanic not only rewards having no skill, but also actively blocks other people from even trying.

Similarly, the mechanic of "who tags a spawn first" when that's an option is extremely stupid as well; something that essentially comes down to random luck or who happens to live closest to the server host, to have the fastest ping.

The biggest issue is zerg guilds for high end content, and that exists these days regardless of being allowed to have competition via DPS or not. In actual classic-era Everquest, a huge zerg force would lag people out, and thus actually make it less desirable have huge numbers at a single raid. Which is a really good argument for why p99 should implement raid size limits: it would recreate how classic EQ actually played. They already nerfed AOE farming with the argument that people couldn't do it to such an extent back then because of getting lagged out (and that's entirely true).

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's implementing the one kind of competition your favorite classes excel at while preventing the other classes from fighting back through pvp.

Has nothing to do with my favorite classes, only the facts of how the game actually was. Other classes aren't prevented from fighting back either, what are you talking about? Melee were relatively weak until Kunark, but that's simply classic. Even still, a melee with decent weapons in 1999 can still add more DPS to the score total than a Wizard. If you are contesting a high content area, then a "burst" caster allows you to win specific NPC's, but means you will lose many as well.

Originally Posted by Halfcell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zuranthium, whether it is "classic" or not, p99's history has pretty clearly proven that the PnP is necessary. Hell it's present shows that. Riot had a BP of Eradication ninjalooted not a week ago. How many times would I have to train that guy, or steal his kills, or how much would I have to ruin his reputation to make that a fair trade?

The answer is entirely up to you. That's supposed to be how a real MMORPG operates.

If an item at a raid is ninjalooted by someone not in the guild, then it inherently means the guild failed anyway. The rules of the game are that corpses become unlocked to the non-winning party after a certain amount of time. The world owns the corpse at that point, not any individual group. Also, the concept of "ninjalooting" was in fact ALLOWED by Rogues during early era Everquest! Their pick pocket skill was designed to do exactly that. They were supposed to be shadowy figures within the game, not DPS bots.

Originally Posted by Halfcell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another example, I took a shot at soloing Aillysh the other day on my shaman. You are telling me that someone should have been able to roll up and memblur her at 5% and steal that kill? With no repercussions? I guess I could just follow them around for weeks and train them every chance I had right.

Damage dealt = the winner. If you did 95% damage, then you're the winner. Memblur shouldn't be working like that; people in 1999 weren't aware of the mechanic, if it was even working like that at the time (or may have been told not to do it by GM's), otherwise top guilds would have used it early on to power level their alts. Something like this falls under the realm of what would have been considered an exploit, so it's not allowed.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL, it's exactly "real competition". Most damage done = win. The same as whoever is the highest jumper or fast runner or scores the most goals, wins in an athletic competition. What's not real competition is declaring everyone a winner regardless of skill and performance (which is what the original PnP catered to), or even worse, the current p99 mechanic of people being able to own a camp by doing nothing but sitting around. That mechanic not only rewards having no skill, but also actively blocks other people from even trying.

Similarly, the mechanic of "who tags a spawn first" when that's an option is extremely stupid as well; something that essentially comes down to random luck or who happens to live closest to the server host, to have the fastest ping.

Rules you don't like: rules giving melees good odds as well.

Rules you do like: rules which allow any caster anywhere to take a mob a melee player wants without any recourse.

I get it, you want to have an easier time on the new server, but you should really just get good instead of hiding your real intentions behind another twenty-line forum post about how the PnP should be nixed (but please don't enable PvP because my poor caster butt might get owned!)

Green is going to recreate the classic video game. The classic experience will never be recreated, unless you want to put everyone on dial-up again, blind casters while medding, remove wikis, etc. The classic video game environment is recreated, everything else (PnP, /petition rules, player agreements) doesn't have to adhere to your memories. If p99's community was on classic EQ from day 1, the PnP would have been implemented on day 2.

[Jimjam]

The following players have been banned from the Phase 4 EverQuest beta test for failure to comply with repeated warnings against exploiting mobs and other PvP+ players on the Rallos Zek server.
Chat Handle/Character Name:
Tweed/Tweed
Bendoggius/Smizzurf
Lucenthawk/Lucenthawk
Jakila/Revken
DustyAirs/Amoush
lou76/Llan

The following player has been banned for ignoring repeated warnings against the use of profanity and racial slurs on the Chat server.
Moonrings


CSR classic since beta.