A Shady Goblin (Ring Roll) in Warsilk Woods

[azeth]

Pre-roll is the worst imaginable idea and I personally will not participate in it.

The roll will occur within minutes of the spawn or on the spawn, or this is absurd.

You are severely underestimating the value of simplicity.

[Dogma]

Progress is made whenever progress can be kept. Let's not walk in circles.

[Senescant]

Ok, we'll see what people in game think about it.

Simplicity and intelligently are two different things. But why people think rolling at a set time is difficult is beyond me. /shrug.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But why people think rolling at a set time is difficult is beyond me. /shrug.

Because we've played on this server.

I swear, I'm not a cynic, I'm an optimist (there's no way I could have invested so much time in the wiki if I wasn't) ... but I'm a realist first, and more than half a decade here has taught me that player agreements are incredibly hard to make happen, and they only ever succeed when they are dead simple.

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But why people think rolling at a set time is difficult is beyond me. /shrug.

because this idea is wildly open ended with obvious flaws. The most obvious of them is - Person X isn't an everyday forum user shows up to camp Shady after the designated roll time. How does that conversation transpire when you say, "sorry roll was 5 hours ago" and they respond "I was at work..."

[Wonkie]

preroll is bad because it diminishes the feeling you've accomplished something by socking

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

preroll is bad because it diminishes the feeling you've accomplished something by socking

ROFL, and there's that.

Seriously though, if I could wave a magic wand that let me institute a system of my choice (but not change the spawn time; it's a shitty magic wand) I would make pre-roll the standard. My point is not that it's great to sit there for hours waiting and that I like doing it.

My point is, this is P99, and we don't have a magic wand.

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ROFL, and there's that.

Seriously though, if I could wave a magic wand that let me institute a system of my choice (but not change the spawn time; it's a shitty magic wand) I would make pre-roll the standard. My point is not that it's great to sit there for hours waiting and that I like doing it.

My point is, this is P99, and we don't have a magic wand.

i agree, good things simply aren't possible.

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i agree, good things simply aren't possible.

That's too far as well. Ultimately you just need to sew up the if/thens and the system will work.

When it spawns... roll. What is fucking easier than that? If someone decides to be a dick, how is that reflective of the system? How does pre-rolling prevent someone from clickfesting?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i agree, good things simply aren't possible.

No, but good complex things that twenty or so rotating humans all have to agree to, when all twenty of those humans have a strong incentive to break the system if it gives them an advantage, aren't possible ... or at the very least are incredibly difficult and unlikely.

This isn't (just) some philosophical claim on the nature of Man (with a capital M) ... this is the reality/legacy of numerous failed player agreements here. Even just on this one case of Shady, in under a month, we've seen a couple of failed attempts to complicate the system. I'm not saying they were bad proposals (well the "let's go back to a clickfest some of the time" idea was bad), but good or bad doesn't enter in to it if you don't first consider what people will/won't agree to.