Real Question here

[xexbis0]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point of Class R is to completely segregate that population away from the play style of Class C. It absolutely should be play nice or play C.

Extending the Class C variance (especially with extended windows) prevents the spawns from being permanently clustered, unarguably reduces the all-too-familiar sock fests we have, and it encourages competition in the fairest way so far seen on the server: quick mobilization and proper organization.

Finally, Class R might be willing to take a hit in the wallet as you described because this is about what is the best policy for the server. Believe it or not, quite a few people are concerned with good policy even if it doesn't benefit them directly.

1) No the point of the two classes is to help segregate them. There has to be a middle ground to allow for less or more depending on what you want to accomplish. That middle ground is FFA. Even then, it's still near impossible to compete for certain mobs against class C without massive trial and error/time sinks that even the most staunch of class R avoid.

2) Come on. You can't honestly believe that FFA mobs being less clustered is anything but a massive advantage to the bigger guilds already putting in the time. It'd force round the clock tracking for almost every mob and produce more competition for smaller FFA mobs.

3) I must have missed the part where 1200+ logging on during peak hours is terrible for the server. The population is somehow increasing as the content becomes more stale. You're hiding behind fancy words instead of looking at things objectively.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Velerin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd just like to experience a Norrath where dragons live for longer than 30 seconds, get to roam around a little, stretch their legs, burn down a few poor newbies passing thru the zone before they meet their demise and give out their lewts.

This is technically already the case, although I realize 30 seconds is an exaggeration. I mean look, this is 14-year-old content. Nothing about these fights is particularly new to anyone, which is why it's so easy to lock them down and sock them into oblivion.

Without altering the code in an absurdly non-classic way, the only other solution is an absurdly non-classic set of rules governing the raid scene. Experiencing classic EverQuest as it actually was back in '99 - '01 is out of the question. Those days are over.

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Believe it or not, quite a few people are concerned with good policy even if it doesn't benefit them directly.

Generally speaking, I think that most of the people who have been involved in this process since inception are concerned with good policy that supports the server long term.

The difference between the ideologies of the policy is the same as the difference reflected in C vs. R play style.

The fact that we have the current agreement in place, forged by all parties (C and R), is a boon....and the fact that we all scrutinize it and want to make it better - for the life of the server and general population - is overall a good thing.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) No the point of the two classes is to help segregate them. There has to be a middle ground to allow for less or more depending on what you want to accomplish. That middle ground is FFA. Even then, it's still near impossible to compete for certain mobs against class C without massive trial and error/time sinks that even the most staunch of class R avoid.

The inclusion of a middle ground quickly becomes a race to the bottom. FFA has already seen the tactics become just as, if not more, aggressive as the ones employed in Class C. FFA is instead becoming Class C with the option to dip on the rotation as well. It is anything but Class C training wheels.

Originally Posted by xexbis

2) Come on. You can't honestly believe that FFA mobs being less clustered is anything but a massive advantage to the bigger guilds already putting in the time. It'd force round the clock tracking for almost every mob and produce more competition for smaller FFA mobs.

FFA mobs should happen only on a repop if they do happen. Bag limits in effect for FFA repops afford the protection you seek. There is no advantage for larger guilds under this scheme. It simply eliminates the area where the otherwise segregated populations are forced to mingle with unpleasant results.

Originally Posted by xexbis

3) I must have missed the part where 1200+ logging on during peak hours is terrible for the server. The population is somehow increasing as the content becomes more stale. You're hiding behind fancy words instead of looking at things objectively.

I don't understand your point (aside from simply calling my argument empty). Are you implying that the increased server population is due only to the FFA class and that its elimination would cause them to flee?

[Ravager]

I was just generalizing, the golems in Trak's lair, for instance, shouldn't leave their master, especially when he's under attack. Giants should go to Naggy, All of Inny's minions should assist Inny and so on, make all encounters like CT, only take it a step further and make it so that mobs in raid zones can't be kited. Force guilds to kill every damn wurm to PD, now that is earning your pixels.

[Swifty]

RnF...

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[xexbis0]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The inclusion of a middle ground quickly becomes a race to the bottom. FFA has already seen the tactics become just as, if not more, aggressive as the ones employed in Class C. FFA is instead becoming Class C with the option to dip on the rotation as well. It is anything but Class C training wheels.



FFA mobs should happen only on a repop if they do happen. Bag limits in effect for FFA repops afford the protection you seek. There is no advantage for larger guilds under this scheme. It simply eliminates the area where the otherwise segregated populations are forced to mingle with unpleasant results.



I don't understand your point (aside from simply calling my argument empty). Are you implying that the increased server population is due only to the FFA class and that its elimination would cause them to flee?

Come on Xasten...let's not act like any class R guilds are racking up FFA CT, Inny, Trak kills. Why are some FFA mobs being competitive like class C a bad thing again? It's still infinitely less time consuming to the casual player over the insane variance we had before.

All of a sudden there's a huge issue with COTH ducking now that TMO isn't winning 60-70% of contested FFA mobs all of a sudden? You think you're David Stern/Adam Silver when you're really just Roger Goodell. You want to act like your little band aids are "best for everyone" when there's really no good will or equity built up to believe you.

The current system allows for any amount of immersion a guild / player may want to attempt. What can be any better than that?

[sanforce]

Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What can be any better than that?

Well, mechanics that discourage socking (instead of encourage) can be better than that, of course.

[Susano]

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[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Come on Xasten...let's not act like any class R guilds are racking up FFA CT, Inny, Trak kills. Why are some FFA mobs being competitive like class C a bad thing again? It's still infinitely less time consuming to the casual player over the insane variance we had before.

All of a sudden there's a huge issue with COTH ducking now that TMO isn't winning 60-70% of contested FFA mobs all of a sudden? You think you're David Stern/Adam Silver when you're really just Roger Goodell. You want to act like your little band aids are "best for everyone" when there's really no good will or equity built up to believe you.

The current system allows for any amount of immersion a guild / player may want to attempt. What can be any better than that?

Right, because I've never once advocated a position on this that wasn't beneficial to TMO.

You're right; what we have now IS a better policy than what the server had before. The point is that it can be improved. Class C and Class R should never interact in a raid environment. The interaction between the two has invariably devolved to the same extreme tactics that Class C employs. This is unfair to Class R.

If TMO isn't getting FFA kills now, how would the elimination of that bracket help TMO? Half of the old FFA mobs would be Class R, and the other half is still facing the same competition that had been previously denying us those mobs as before. With the same level of competition for half the resources, explain to me how I'm being self-interested here. I find it interesting that every time this discussion comes up, someone just has to chime in with "you're only doing this NOW because it benefits you." How many consistently themed posts from 2012 will I have to dig up before what I'm saying is motivated by something other than convenience? Even if I were strictly self-interested, try arguing the policy itself as opposed to the merits of the individuals suggesting it.

If I suggested that water is wet would you throw the same fit?