OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does her post really sound to you like this is something they (or any guild not TMO/FE/IB) wants to do long term? Catherin, as you are the primary tracker and you gave us a candid response... is it?

Nope. I hate it. its absolutely no fun, and it is only done because it is necessary to get him at all. It also drives us into the ground having to keep up with it.

Getting the first inny kill with the two hour agreement and having to sit out the next one was a RELIEF to me

[JayN]

tbh there is no way to enforce anything with out gm intervention; they needs to stop taking a hands off approach. this has been aa good way to divert attention away from VELIOUS's delay; which would fix pretty much everything!

We need gms very hands on in this process as well as some staff always around during off hours for any of this to be serious.

for the sake of the fairness they desire

[Capi]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just something to consider when talking about a points system...

What do you do when 1 guild either splits into two or sticks a bunch of alts into a brand new guild...?

How will you know if that new guild is a legitimate separate entity, or just a ploy for more points?

Will you just go with your gut feeling and tell a guild that may in fact be its own thing separate from the original guild 'no, you can't raid because we think you're exploiting points'?

Just a thought. Not saying you can't do it.

I like to have some trust in humanity. But no big deal - guild that gets caught faces one hell of a penalty.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There would be an investigation if the guild council votes on it, GMs could compare the IPs/accounts for both guilds, and if found a significant number of a guild's alts were in the guild, the both guilds would have their points allocation would be set to ZERO until the alts were removed. Granted, this would take a lot of CSR work so that's why the monthly quota is stripped from BOTH guilds as a "M.A.D."-style deterrent.

The only reason I can think of to have your alts in another guild is to a) spy, or b) because you hate the guild your main is in and need to take a break from your guildmates, which is sad... but go join a non-raiding guild for that then.

...do you realize how much work an investigation like this entails?

And what about guilds who are legitimately splitting? How do you tell if it's a real split or just a points ploy?

These are things that need to be thought about thoroughly and a solid plan for how you would proceed if a situation like this occurs needs to be in place.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by benjay [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is no way you could prove that they are linked

Pretty sure the devs could, if they had a vested interest in keeping things peaceful after such an agreement was worked out.

[Pheer]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll make this clear too.

Im more than willing to be raid suspended for a week, or a month, or longer, if that's what its going to take for a proper agreement for everyone. This doesn't hurt me. This doesn't hurt the smaller guilds. Taken looses the respectable number of targets we get but it also gives us a break from this toxicity in the promise of something better in the future for all of us.

Not sure if I can say that about everyone in the top Guilds though so you had better think about that.

So we're back to guilds holding the raid scene hostage instead of coming together and discussing compromises and alternate solutions once again? You all are talking about this glorious chance to change the server for the better and uniting as a community to end the evil hardcore guilds' tyranny, then immediately turning around and saying you want a point system and nothing else or you're taking your ball and going home since "you didnt really feel like playing anyway"

[CodyF86]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it has been mentioned Aaradin. if that's how its really going to be then of course im sure Taken would comply. please don't hint at imaginary motives [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't hinting at anything.

Aaradin
The A-Team

[Seltius]

I am not sure why there is so much of a fight. Also why are the casual or less "hardcore" raiding guilds expecting to be given the same amount of targets and expect an even split with the "hardcore" guilds willing to put in the extra effort? You say well we don't have the alts or the desire to track and compete but we want the targets all the same. You keep talking about how the server has been around so long. How many of the people in this thread arguing only have 1 level 52+ character?(excluding the trolls who may not even play anymore and are just here to get their rocks off)

This whole thread has gone from an attempt to offer a solution to a bunch of entitled bullshit.

People posting here instead of seeing it as a chance to compete more for targets without being steamrolled feel that because guild A or guild B have gotten targets that they now should go to playing casual so everyone else can leisurely kill mobs. If you don't like this idea come up with a better one. But leveling the playing field to where a guild that doesn't put forth the effort still is even with a guild that does or is willing to doesn't work and wont work. It wont happen unless the GMs dictate that is how it will be and I don't think that is really what they vision for this server.

Everyone's perception of classic is corrupted by a timeframe that is most definitely not classic. I am not sure the exact timeframe without spending more time than I really care to but by this point in live they should have been into PoP or beyond. I didn't start playing on live until a few months before Velious even then you didn't have 3+guilds keyed and wanting to raid VP at least not on the server I played on.


Also is there a way to lock these threads or set up a forum where only the elected representatives of the guilds can post. It would be cool to have them public so people could see what was being brainstormed so they could tell their leader or officers what their opinions were. As long as there is free reign things will never work out because you have too many people burying the message in these threads with opinions, hate, and general trolling.


Edit-Case in point there were 35posts in the 12mins it took me to post this. How many of them actually represented the guilds the posters are from. I saw Motec and stopped reading after his because it was the same people anon or not posting quoting different people. Oh and I didn't count yours Derubael because I don't think we could keep you out of any thread you want into!

[JayN]

Originally Posted by Pheer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So we're back to guilds holding the raid scene hostage instead of coming together and discussing compromises and alternate solutions once again? You all are talking about this glorious chance to change the server for the better and uniting as a community to end the evil hardcore guilds' tyranny, then immediately turning around and saying you want a point system and nothing else or you're taking your ball and going home since "you didnt really feel like playing anyway"

you get it pheer, the hypocrisy is deep. This "I want it to be fair unless its against me" bullshit is dumb

[DrKvothe]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...do you realize how much work an investigation like this entails?

And what about guilds who are legitimately splitting? How do you tell if it's a real split or just a points ploy?

These are things that need to be thought about thoroughly and a solid plan for how you would proceed if a situation like this occurs needs to be in place.

If you were willing to follow through with investigations and perma-ban violating accounts, the threat of this would keep it from happening more than once.