not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[odiecat99]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing? Sorry that you feel that way.

Sorry Nilbog, I truely enjoy and playing on this server and I am very grateful that it's free to play and available. But there is way to much stuff that isn't classic.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by odiecat99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry Nilbog, I truely enjoy and playing on this server and I am very grateful that it's free to play and available. But there is way to much stuff that isn't classic.

This is fine. I *want* to make things more classic, but it's difficult to even read these threads when non-classicness is addressed so generally. Like, your example that blue diamonds shouldn't drop till velious.. isn't correct. Blue diamonds dropped in Kunark, but blue diamond jewelry shouldn't be craftable till Velious. This was corrected 2 months ago, retroactively, but a patch hasn't occurred.

It's the raid scene and rules, then? If there's something I can fix, I go out of my way to fix it. If it's generally complaining about raiding, then address it as such. I think the raid scene is trash as well. What's funny about that is.. if you played on a server with top 5 worldwide guilds, it's pretty damn classic and awful. Da`Kor was my experience, but the difference is they did the most they could with the fewest people they could. That.. is not the zerg mentality of present day.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FWIW Nilbog I totally understand your attitude. People are complaining about a great free service. Rather than take it personally, I hope it just goes to show you how irritating the raid scene on this server can be.

Nah, not taking it personally. I just want specific examples so I can fix it if it's fixable. As I said above, rules and player interactions are quite more difficult to fix than something actually having to do with Everquest...

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The last couple of changes have specifically benefited only TMO/FE.

That's what I'm afraid of. I don't want it to end up as a GM-bashing contest and a bunch of whiny cunts who aren't grateful of the work you guys have put in, but I'd be lying if I didn't have some rather serious concerns that you've ignored for a period of years and the way things have been going as of late.

Didn't ignore anything that I'm aware of. I've responded to the raid scene proposals and various other things. I have a vote in management decisions. Essentially, I want to recreate classic eq. When it goes beyond the actual work, it ... sucks. Managing people sucks. Managing people's expectations sucks worse.

It is literally impossible to please everyone, but we seriously do what we can. Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is literally impossible to please everyone, but we seriously do what we can. Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

I think it just comes down to the fact that EQ players and MMO players in general expect the games staff to police players. I'm not saying that you guys don't, but I think that's why people are asking you to do something, and lets not forget that a lot of people are really helpless in this situation.

My suggestion would be to get rid of Rants and Flames, letting the community behave like it does on the official forums (regardless of it being in a difference section) carries over into the game, and lets those shitheads wear their douchebaggery like a badge of honor. Not that it would really fix the raid scene, but it may prevent future douchebags that join from blossoming into full grown RnFers.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is literally impossible to please everyone, but we seriously do what we can. Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

You're absolutely right, there will always be some dissent regarding the raid scene. But right now 10% of the server population is making the rest of the population miserable when it comes to raiding. I know you want to make things as classic as possible, regarding that thought there was a post a while back talking about the No CSR policy concerning VP. It outlined what the spirit of the No CSR policy was about, and no where in that policy did it condone training/griefing as a part of that policy. The spirit of the policy was to deter guilds that were under geared or under manned from entering VP and being unable to retrieve their corpses.

By adhering to the NO CSR policy as it should be followed you'd achieve a more classic experience and you'd relieve some of pressure at the top end of the raid scene. TMO would be forced to dedicate more resources to defending VP since training the competition would no longer be a viable tactic, thus allowing more time for smaller guilds to mobilize and attempt targets. Just a thought.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah, not taking it personally. I just want specific examples so I can fix it if it's fixable. As I said above, rules and player interactions are quite more difficult to fix than something actually having to do with Everquest...

Didn't ignore anything that I'm aware of. I've responded to the raid scene proposals and various other things. I have a vote in management decisions. Essentially, I want to recreate classic eq. When it goes beyond the actual work, it ... sucks. Managing people sucks. Managing people's expectations sucks worse.

It is literally impossible to please everyone, but we seriously do what we can. Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

Nilbog, there has been more than one occasion where I've brought something up with you and/or Rogean only to have you guys say you'll discuss it and come back with nothing to show for it. I'm not talking about instances where there is a possibly perceived grey area but things that are black and white, right and wrong. A prime example for this was the early days of Bumamgar and how, even when we were promised that certain rules were enforced, they were explicitly ignored at the behest of Rogean's decision. He was a total douche on P99 and he was caught cheating on the two other emulated servers he played on, yet he was also a dev and benefited from some really poorly considered decisions. There was also the incident where 364accts got caught cheating (or "cheating"), which you admitted was done poorly and in hindsight you would have done things differently. If the anti-cheat system wasn't full-proof and as a result you couldn't have permabanned these folks then fine, but at least say something to that extent. All that we saw was 364 accounts that should have been banned for cheating shown the 'welcome back' mat. Had you guys been clear from the beginning you wouldn't have lost more legitimate players than actual cheaters. To that point: the punishments for cheating and general dickish behavior have always been extremely lax. You can't be everywhere and see everything that goes on, but at least come down harsh on what you do notice. This lackadaisical and half-caring sentiment and punishments has bred the exact issues we're all complaining about, in the raid scene in particular.

I understand that the players deserve a lot of the blame here, but let's also quit blaming and punishing the players that have nothing to do with any of the bullshit and at least admit that there have been some serious blunders on account of the staff as well. We've had Xzerion RMT, uthgaard go nuts, amelinda accept $$$, cyrius go power hungry, and database leaks, and some of Sirken's posts have all the wisdom and insight of a rabid 12-year-old.

I know you hate player interactions. I've heard this from many people and have seen you do your best to ignore it if at all possible, but I can also personally tell you that Rogean doesn't have a spotless record here. When I had an issue with uthgaard jumping to conclusions and seeing things only the way he wanted to see them, I came to you. You're reasonable and consistent. You'll sit down and think things through and consider the repercussions, even if it means admitting fault after the fact. You're the most sensible person on this server but you also despise having to deal with all of this bullshit. The problem here is that when you're not dealing with the bullshit, it only piles up to a point where you can't see what's over the hill of poopoo.

As to the issue of working it out amongst yourselves:
TMO has explicitly said they won't discuss any sort of raid changes that results in them losing mobs. Mind you, the only reason that they've benefited -- and DA/IB/VD/whoever else poopsocked -- is due to the biggest shitstain this server had to deal with that hasn't work a single day since you've implemented it: the variance. They're (and any guild that stoops to that level) going to bitch, moan and cry if the rules aren't heavily tipped in their favor. If the same people that pushed it through and defended it were caught cheating wasn't a big enough sign to get rid of it (and that was years ago!!), I reckon Rogean adding more if it and changing the way that every NPC in the game reacts in order to keep it is the final nail in the coffin. It's gotten so bad that you guys are changing classic mechanics of every NPC in the game to cater to these same people you claim are at the heart of the issue here.

It's hypocritical. If you and Rogean can't agree as to what should be done, and I'm assuming here you thought the NPC change and added variance was a horrible idea, then how can you expect the servers' players who number in the hundreds to agree to anything when you've got a single guild who benefits from the status quo unwilling to negotiate on any sort of terms? You can't even say with a straight face that patch notes are pushed through to benefit them and only them.

The two of you need to sit down and really think about just what the hell's going on. If you're going to keep the nonclassic mechanics and add to them, fine, but don't claim you're willing to listen to the players' interests and take them into account when they've been ignored for years. If the two of you agree that the raid scene is shit, which you seem to agree with, then why have the only changes been in the wrong direction?

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the raid scene and rules, then? If there's something I can fix, I go out of my way to fix it. If it's generally complaining about raiding, then address it as such. I think the raid scene is trash as well. What's funny about that is.. if you played on a server with top 5 worldwide guilds, it's pretty damn classic and awful. Da`Kor was my experience, but the difference is they did the most they could with the fewest people they could. That.. is not the zerg mentality of present day.

Then let's stop favoring it with rules that don't make sense and patch notes that only piss everyone off.

I saw Daydrem on our guild website a couple of weeks ago and thought about typing up something to see if she'd come back but couldn't in good spirit think of a single good reason why I should lie to her.

[enr4ged]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is fine. I *want* to make things more classic, but it's difficult to even read these threads when non-classicness is addressed so generally. Like, your example that blue diamonds shouldn't drop till velious.. isn't correct. Blue diamonds dropped in Kunark, but blue diamond jewelry shouldn't be craftable till Velious. This was corrected 2 months ago, retroactively, but a patch hasn't occurred.

It's the raid scene and rules, then? If there's something I can fix, I go out of my way to fix it. If it's generally complaining about raiding, then address it as such. I think the raid scene is trash as well. What's funny about that is.. if you played on a server with top 5 worldwide guilds, it's pretty damn classic and awful. Da`Kor was my experience, but the difference is they did the most they could with the fewest people they could. That.. is not the zerg mentality of present day.



Nah, not taking it personally. I just want specific examples so I can fix it if it's fixable. As I said above, rules and player interactions are quite more difficult to fix than something actually having to do with Everquest...



Didn't ignore anything that I'm aware of. I've responded to the raid scene proposals and various other things. I have a vote in management decisions. Essentially, I want to recreate classic eq. When it goes beyond the actual work, it ... sucks. Managing people sucks. Managing people's expectations sucks worse.

It is literally impossible to please everyone, but we seriously do what we can. Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

I think what people are getting at is if you are willing to make the server non-classic (variance), yet you realize it's bad and it's not working and it basically stops anyone that doesn't play the game 24/7 from competing for the bosses, then WHY do you leave it in the game?

Ideally someone who feels the sever should be classic would change it back. Or on the other hand, if someone is trying to make the raid scene better then they would change variance to something that works which is fine in my eyes. I thought this server was about emulating classic. So you should either emulate classic or fix the raid scene in a non-classic way so people can enjoy a somewhat classic server not be frustrated that only one guild gets to experience it.

So what's the problem? Either you want to fix raiding or you want the server to be classic. In it's current state variance is not doing either.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is literally impossible to please everyone, but we seriously do what we can. Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

I believe you. But you have to understand that people adapt to the rules you have in place. Currently to get raid mobs you have to have a guild that can track raid mobs and batphone 20+ at any hour of the day. Its simply not possible to have a raiding guild with <100 players on this server.

Suppose the only way to spawn bosses was with tokens, and each guild gets a fixed number. TMO dies the next day; they would break into 3-4 smaller guilds to get more tokens.

My point is only that if you want to change the behavior, you have to change the incentives. And that is why unlike a lot of the people in this thread I haven't been bitching at TMO; I hate the system not the players.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

quoted for posterity

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing? Sorry that you feel that way.

FWIW Nilbog I totally understand your attitude. People are complaining about a great free service. Rather than take it personally, I hope it just goes to show you how irritating the raid scene on this server can be.