Half of FE's monks are suspended, Loses Trak when they have to compete

[cyryllis]

ae did not hit everyone on hill

[baramur]

Cyrano trained trak a 2ndd time after the first time let's not leave that out. Was not intentional but it did happen, and no ill will toward cyrano mistakes happen.

[baramur]

Your right it didn't hit anyone who logged in after it went off

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a poor analogy because in the case of Trakanon today it was impossible for FE to log out both having been hit by Trak AE and being subject to getting hit by Trak AE again.

I guess impossible is the wrong word...suicidal for their ability to engage Trak is better.

This is all moot, however...why FE was hit and subject to Trak AE in the first place is the problem here, not what FE does about it once it happens. If this logic is applied to every instance where a mob is trained onto another individual or group of people, the person at fault would always be the person or people trained and their inability to deal with it.

Originally Posted by baramur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

His wing was. But fine he was on the side of poop hill and his ae hit everyone on poop hill

FE stood in los of trakanon and got hit with AEs. If you're looking at the dragon you already knew you were going to eat AEs.

You didn't get trained.

You made bad calls.

1) after logging in and seeing where Trak is, you allowed more people to log in and stay in LOS of trakanon.

2) you made a call to engage a dragon that you had already taken AE/s from without knowing if you had fte or not (or maybe you did?)

This would be the equivalent of me going to pull talendor or sev and you beating me to the punch and I take an AE when it happens. There is no way I could say that you trained me because I took an AE.

[Enygma]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, in regards to Helicopter...

Helicopter dies because all the juggs run at him. They do this after killing and summoning quite a few TMO. They have no problem getting to him. The reason he dies is because they get him low HP and Prot summons him.

Helicopter was on the aggro list of the juggs the whole time. Why was he not being summoned instead of TMO if he was bugging them out? Why is Trak killing TMO if he is chasing Helicopter? In order for Helicopter to be bugging him out, he would have to be first on the hate list of either...which is clearly not the case.

The only way this could be the case is if TMO is continously getting low hp agro and pinging him back. Seeing as Prot summons him the second he hits low hp, this is highly doubtful. Even if this is the case, however, how on earth are you trying to throw all possible blame on someone from another guild that is on the agro list of a mob that YOUR GUILD ENGAGED who is attempting to avoid YOUR ENGAGE by getting distance from a mob that was not his guilds engage?

I would think that if you were trying to engage trak, your warriors would hold agro on Trak...wouldnt you?

bro - helicopter suspended... you're confused.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by baramur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cyrano trained trak a 2ndd time after the first time let's not leave that out. Was not intentional but it did happen, and no ill will toward cyrano mistakes happen.

I can't comment on that, only on the two fraps that were posted (one claiming it a train).

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by AenarieFenninRo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have yet to see any evidence of how trak got OUT of the lair, i've seen a couple shots of him under the mountain, both in the wall and on edge of path, but havent yet seen evidence of how he came out of the lair.

TMO has people over the place; in the lair, on the ledge, across the water, and in between. The whole FE raid force is on the ledge save for Helicopter who is FRAPsing on the other side of the water...this one FE person not on the ledge, according to TMO, is the reason for all of this chaos...not the clusterfuck of TMO running to and fro.

Strangely, like I said, TMO doesnt seem to think it is necessary to hold agro on Trak to engage him. Is TMO now claiming that Helicopter managed to pull agro from Trak off of them and run him out of lair after TMO had ran in, because I would love to see the GMs encounter logs in this case to see just how much hate Heli actually dumped on Trak...or how little TMO did.

TMO ran in to be in before FE and didnt even attempt to kill Trak. Not only this, they went in with less than three groups. This may have been a stall tactic, but it went horribly wrong. If it was a legitmate engage that went wrong, that would be one thing. But to have another guild eat shit because your stall turned into a train, well you mineswell equate that with having another guild eat shit because you trained them to stall.

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FE stood in los of trakanon and got hit with AEs. If you're looking at the dragon you already knew you were going to eat AEs.

You didn't get trained.

You made bad calls.

1) after logging in and seeing where Trak is, you allowed more people to log in and stay in LOS of trakanon.

2) you made a call to engage a dragon that you had already taken AE/s from without knowing if you had fte or not (or maybe you did?)

This would be the equivalent of me going to pull talendor or sev and you beating me to the punch and I take an AE when it happens. There is no way I could say that you trained me because I took an AE.

This is not equivalent at all. Going out to consciously engage a dragon with a puller or pull team and being hit by the AE because someone else beat you to it is quite different than you, for example, pulling talendor or sev on a raidforce and then claiming that they should have seen it coming and moved...which is exactly what your claim is.

[baramur]

So its ok to train a group logging in on your engage, because it is their fault they logged into trak being there? I thought you were responsible for your pulls, if trak was non aggrieved wandering back from a monk running him out of lair and he aggrod onto a raid force sitting on bill, this still constitutes a train. Tmo engageand kill trak its different the minute tmo wipes or calls of engage and the engage resulted in negative impact to Fe raid force it is raid interference.

[Tanthallas]

In hindsight certain calls could have definitely been made better, I do not disagree with that at all Stealin.

I am sure everyone or every group/raid who is trained could have made better calls as well in hindsight to save more people or turn the situation in their favor. That is a completely seperate issue than the fact that they were trained, however.

Your logic applies if training isnt against the rules. Then all that matters is how to recover and/or turn the situation in your favor. As long as training is deemed against the rules, however, it remains a seperate issue from the tactics of train recovery and avoidance.