stop bringing up the founding fathers in gun arguments

[patriot1776]

im not a wingnut im a single issue voter

[Hitchens]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gor...a-attac,30860/

[Ahldagor]

who the fuck cares? so we won't have extended magazines or whatever or assault rifles. shit got jumped on quick as fuck by the media cause congress once again failed in doing something that would actually help the vast majority of people in the "insert stupid dramatic adjective" solution to the "fiscal cliff" which needs to happen. best way to reduce debt is to increase income and decrease spending, but can't take a 1% hit on growth even though most likely outcome is sustainable growth in two to three years, nope nope can't have people makin more money all around....i forgot where i was going with this.

[Ahldagor]

thank you hitchens. once again you win. /bow

[Hitchens]

@vaylorie,

One should not misrepresent statistics just to make a philosophical point. I'm quite sure it isn't intentional, but that is what is going on here.

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Hitchens [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@vaylorie,

One should not misrepresent statistics just to make a philosophical point. I'm quite sure it isn't intentional, but that is what is going on here.

Instead of leaning on your philosophical point, please better evaluate the data or show any proof that gun controls do reduce violent crime. I'm made a fairly clear and evidence-based case whereas through 25 pages there has been absolutely no proof that gun controls reduce violent crime. There have, of course, been a tremendous number of juvenile opinions based on emotion, ignorance, and whatever you heard Chris Matthews or Piers Morgan say. If you want to be taken seriously, why don't you make a case, present some details, or move along to troll another day.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instead of leaning on your philosophical point, please better evaluate the data or show any proof that gun controls do reduce violent crime. I'm made a fairly clear and evidence-based case whereas through 25 pages there has been absolutely no proof that gun controls reduce violent crime. There have, of course, been a tremendous number of juvenile opinions based on emotion, ignorance, and whatever you heard Chris Matthews or Piers Morgan say. If you want to be taken seriously, why don't you make a case, present some details, or move along to troll another day.

You are deluded by your prejudice

Your intelligence is compromised by your emotion.

You are more worried about winning an argument then you are in being correct in your information.

Bad boy!

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instead of leaning on your philosophical point, please better evaluate the data or show any proof that gun controls do reduce violent crime. I'm made a fairly clear and evidence-based case whereas through 25 pages there has been absolutely no proof that gun controls reduce violent crime.

You won't get it.

Science cannot provide you a clear-cut, absolute answer. The issue is that studying the impact of gun laws on violent crime isn't really the simple question that it appears to be. Instead, we're talking about many different individual laws, written in different ways and enforced in different manners. One law might fail while another succeeds. Where those laws are implemented makes a difference, because a new, strict gun law in a place surrounded by similar laws is going to have a different outcome than the same law in a place where you can just cross a border and find completely different legislation.

Some studies are funded by biased institutions. Some studies aren't peer reviewed. Some studies feature poorly thought-out methodology.

All of that leads to a mess of frequently contradictory conclusions that can be used to support just about any position you'd like to put forward. So, basically, just because you can support your position, don't think that makes you absolutely correct. This goes for both sides.

However...it HAS BEEN PROVEN WITHOUT A DOUBT that gun legislation absolutely reduces mass killings by firearm. People can knock themselves off all they want in this country. Just as long as they don't knock off a bunch of kids in school, take out an entire movie theater, or mow down a bunch of people in a cafeteria.

We've never been arguing the same issue.

[vaylorie]

You are scared of something that is about as statistically as likely as getting struck by lightning. Because you are scared, you want me to be afraid also and you want to remove my liberties. You don't get it. You let your fear control your decision making and wonder why I call you a fool.

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You won't get it.

Science cannot provide you a clear-cut, absolute answer. The issue is that studying the impact of gun laws on violent crime isn't really the simple question that it appears to be. Instead, we're talking about many different individual laws, written in different ways and enforced in different manners. One law might fail while another succeeds. Where those laws are implemented makes a difference, because a new, strict gun law in a place surrounded by similar laws is going to have a different outcome than the same law in a place where you can just cross a border and find completely different legislation.

Some studies are funded by biased institutions. Some studies aren't peer reviewed. Some studies feature poorly thought-out methodology.

All of that leads to a mess of frequently contradictory conclusions that can be used to support just about any position you'd like to put forward. So, basically, just because you can support your position, don't think that makes you absolutely correct. This goes for both sides.

However...it HAS BEEN PROVEN WITHOUT A DOUBT that gun legislation absolutely reduces mass killings by firearm. People can knock themselves off all they want in this country. Just as long as they don't knock off a bunch of kids in school, take out an entire movie theater, or mow down a bunch of people in a cafeteria.

We've never been arguing the same issue.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are scared of something that is about as statistically as likely as getting struck by lightning. Because you are scared, you want me to be afraid also and you want to remove my liberties. You don't get it. You let your fear control your decision making and wonder why I call you a fool.

Wait until you're part of that statistic. You might change your mind then.

You keep saying I'm afraid of something. You're dead wrong...just to let you know.